Kendall Glauber from Lonely Whale and the NextWave Plastics Consortium went from summers in Southern California to the non-profit world, keeping plastic waste from entering the ocean. In this episode, we learn how her efforts through Lonely Whale are helping to drive recycling systems change and how NextWave’s member companies are using ocean-bound plastics to create new goods. We discover the impact of ocean-bound plastics and explore how informal workers in developing countries are a critical part of the system, and why waste is being mismanaged. And learn how multinational corporations and small businesses can help prevent plastics from polluting our oceans and how the circular economy supports social change. 

If you want to learn more about Nextwave, the member companies and how they are making waves by choosing ocean-bound plastics visit www.nextwaveplastics.org. You can follow along with Nextwave on its mission to keep plastic in the economy and out of the ocean on twitter at nxtwaveplastics. Want to support Lonelywhale as a business? 1% for the planet members, you can find them listed as a non-profit, and they are always looking for new brands to join Nextwave’s consortium. 

Links from this episode

• NextWave Plastics

• Lonely Whale

• Forbes: The People Who Collect Most Ocean-Bound Plastic For Recycling Are Getting A Hand Up From A Group Of Companies And Brands

• Marine pollution. Plastic waste inputs from land into the ocean

• UN ocean treaty is ‘once in a lifetime’ chance to protect the high seas

Episode Transcript

[00:02:22] Jennifer Myers Chua: Across the world, 20 million waste pickers, salvage, reusable, or recyclable materials, and are responsible for 60% of the world’s recycling. These people, considered informal workers are collecting ocean bound, plastics that would otherwise end up in the ocean. And this waste is considered mismanaged. There’s no formal waste management system in place in these developing countries. And for discarded plastic to be considered ocean bound, it’s found within 50 kilometers of the coast. Close enough to be washed into the ocean with the next storm.

And the unfortunate reality is that the ocean is already filled with plastic. It’s nearly impossible to collect and damaging. 8 million, tons of plastic is entering the ocean each year. The equivalent of one garbage truck, full of plastic being dumped in the ocean every minute. And the plastic pollution crisis has only accelerated and continues to intensify around the world. Today’s guest Kendell Glauber works at Lonely Whale. A nonprofit on a mission to keep plastic waste from entering the ocean. She’s the director of next wave plastics, a consortium of companies supported by Lonely Whale who are working to keep plastic in the economy and out of the ocean. integrating recycled ocean bound plastic into their products and to help support other businesses in doing the same and drive systemic change

[00:03:43] Kendall Glauber: I was tracking the progress of NextWave from the beginning because I had a existing relationship with Dune Ives, the CEO of Lonely Whale, who has been a mentor of mine throughout my career. It was fairly serendipitous because my background professionally was In consulting, but primarily focused on sustainability. I have a masters of environmental management. And so I had done a lot of work around behavior change, particularly when it comes to sustainability, things like energy efficiency, climate change, and how people can move through the process of change to actually help to benefit the environment, change their behavior, things like that.

When I was growing up, I grew up in Southern California and spent every day of every summer at the beach. My summer camp was called junior guards and it was on the beach. And I was my happiest when I was swimming in the ocean. But it was in long beach, California, which is the port of long beach and the port of Los Angeles. Connected to each other. And also the Los Angeles river flows out right around that area. And so I was having the time of my life swimming in the waves, but also like couldn’t help but notice how much plastic there was in the ocean. Every summer, we would have red tides, which were algal blooms in the water.

There’d be dead birds or dead fish on the beach. So even from like a pretty early age, I had this really clear understanding of the connection between urban systems and the city that I lived in and the environment and, and the impacts to the environment, because I knew I’d been in other places where even maybe a few miles down the coast, I could see that the beaches were cleaner. I could see that, that they didn’t have the same issues with plastic pollution. It was less intense because it wasn’t as close to some of these like urban outlets. And so I understood that really, there was this large impact, but it wasn’t any one person fault. Like it wasn’t any one person who doing it.

It was a lot of people doing a lot of individually, potentially harmless things that then all kind of fed up into this broader systemic problem. That I think actually drove a lot of my curiosity throughout my career in terms of solving systemic problems and figuring out like how do we think about this, how do we come at this from a way where we can actually change what’s happening at a larger scale to meet these goals that help protect our environment as well, but that also don’t make it so that we can’t live our lives and have our businesses and make money from the things that we’ve invented and that people feel really passionate about. And I truly believe that there’s a balance there. And so I think that kind of bringing together those pieces really positions me well to someone that can help do something like convene a consortium that helps position these conversations.

And I think that what’s really great for them, the business people and the companies who are trying to figure out like, okay, how do I make this work from a business perspective is, being a part of something like a consortium or having, key advisors that are helping to guide the work that aren’t just your like investors or your peers in the business that have some more of a, especially if you are working into sustainability and environmental impact or any kind of impact social impact, all the things like there are incredible experts that are doing this work that have the scientific or Process understanding of what the ideal might be. And then you can understand as a business owner, how your business can then help support those goals, whether then explicitly working against them.

I have this opportunity and it could likely be a business differentiator, like my sustainability or my social responsibility, or, the way that I’m investing in new supply streams and innovative materials. This is something that can differentiate me as a business. And at this point, consumers are not putting up with any greenwashing. Like there is, they’re very invested in wanting to know the truth. And so having that transparency, having that knowledge like seeking out those inputs, is something that’s, that’s really interesting.

[00:08:28] Jennifer Myers Chua: When we go back to your junior guard days and you’re playing in the ocean. Do you remember any other moments where you became interested in sustainability? Is there anything that stands out in your mind of like this happened in your life and it led you on this path?

[00:08:43] Kendall Glauber: There’s definitely a few, I think. It’s everything from when I was in college, I was at an event and there was a booth from a local environmental group and they had these jars full of water with these things in them. And they looked just like jellyfish. Like it was, it was almost like a cartoon version of a jellyfish. And I was like, this is weird. And I talked to the people there and they were like, this is what happens when balloons get released and go up into the atmosphere and they expand and then pop and they. Part of it gets shredded, but it stays connected at the part where the knot is. And then when it ends up in the water and it’s bobbing, it looks just like sea life. And that broke my heart. And that I think was actually the moment that took me from the kid being like playing in the ocean, thinking about that, this stuff shouldn’t be here to, oh my gosh. There’s something that I need to do about this. so then I think that, that was a huge moment for me, in terms of just recognizing. How the unintended consequences of the things that we don’t think about and how something like a huge celebration that is, commemorated with a balloon release is something that’s actually really creating so much more harm than good.

And understanding that we’re all connected. I think for me, that was a big piece of it. Connection for me has been a big key value in my life in terms of my connection to my family and my friends and my community and the places where I’ve felt the happiest and most fulfilled have been the places where I’ve had that deep sense of connection and community.

And so I think that brings me back to the idea of How I was talking about systems, thinking like, that sounds like such a buzzword, but really it’s about like how we’re all connected. Like it’s all part of this broader system and everything’s impacting each other. And so like, how can we be more intentional about understanding the impacts that our systems are currently having and ways that we can continue to improve them? Through NextWave. I get the opportunity to do that by helping to continue to grow and deepen this community of brands that have a desire to do good, and help them figure out the way forward together and the way that they’re connected rather than trying to all scrape by and figure it out on their own.

Ocean bound, plastic is really the plastic that is most vulnerable to ending up in the ocean. As many of us know, there’s a bit of an issue with the plastic that we use on land, ending up in the environment, and then in the ocean affecting Marine ecosystems and Marine animals. That plastic is continuing to enter the ocean on a regular basis. In fact, there’s about 12 million metric, tons of plastic that are entering the ocean every single year, that is equivalent to about one and a half garbage trucks being dumped into the ocean every minute. All the time it’s just constantly happening and this is a huge problem.

And so there’s been this development of an industry around how do we stop the flow of this plastic into the ocean before it gets there by setting up systems that help to capture this plastic, in the places where it’s most vulnerable to being in the environment. that gets us to ocean bound plastic. So ocean plastic is defined based on some scientific research out of the university of Georgia. It’s defined as plastic that’s collected within 50 kilometers of a coastline, generally in areas with little or absolutely no waste management. So there’s no truck coming down the street to pick up their waste on a weekly basis. They don’t really have any other recourse. Like this is people in neighborhoods, maybe businesses, companies in places in the world where no one is coming to pick up the trash.

So next wave plastics is a consortium of multinational brands who are all invested in helping to change the trajectory on ocean plastic pollution by sourcing this material, demonstrating that it has commercial value and should be collected and recycled, and that they’re investing the time and energy into using that as new material in their products that they’re putting out on the market. And so our consortium includes a number of brands that you’re probably familiar with. It includes Dell technologies, HP Inc, Herman Miller, human scale, who are more in like interior design and office furniture, Ikea, interface that makes carpeting, Trek bicycles. As well as Shinola, a lifestyle goods company, variative, which makes a number of different packaging applications. CPI card group makes credit cards and soul guard is a startup that makes backpacks and travel goods and other lifestyle goods as well. So just even listening to that list, you can hear that it’s a whole array of different types of products, different industries. There’s really not a limit to what you can do with recycled plastic content, because you can put it into all the things that we make out of plastic.

And so the idea here is this commitment to come together as a consortium to share information so that no one of these companies has to figure this out on their own. They all recognize that this is an issue. They have the ability to help provide at least some level of a solution and so in doing that Each within their own product development, as well as then collaborating together to be successful in doing it, then they’re able to create much more impact and, and help to really turn off the tap on plastic pollution.

[00:15:11] Jennifer Myers Chua: And I mean, these are really household brands. Like I’m talking to you right now, sitting in a Herman Miller chair at an Ikea desk using a Dell monitor. It’s interesting that these brands would want to get involved in this. I’m wondering. How did they come together? What is the benefit for them of joining? why would these brands commit to this? Other than that shared knowledge?

[00:15:31] Kendall Glauber: Yeah, that’s a great question. The consortium itself was founded in 2017, but the conversations really started in 2016, between lonely whale and Dell technologies. And there was this idea that Dell really wanted to be using ocean bound, plastic as a material. Products and packaging. But that they could maybe have an impact on a few beaches and Indonesia. But that, that wasn’t necessarily going to reach the scale of the problem. And so there was this acknowledgement from the beginning that this wasn’t something that they could do on their own, that it was something that they need that other brands and other companies needed to join in on the fight.

But it isn’t easy. I mean, the whole reason that plastic in these areas is ending up in the environment and in the ocean is because the systems there are broken. We have a linear system that pumps just immense amounts of plastic packaging and goods to places all over the world. But there’s no real feasible way for it to get back and to be disposed of properly or reused. Ideally. And because of that broken system, it means that the systems aren’t necessarily set up to incentivize just turning the ship around and getting the plastic back to where it can be used again. So the idea of setting up Ocean bound plastic supply chains really takes an additional layer of investment and additional layer of knowledge around how to work with recycled material, particularly material that may have been exposed to the environment, maybe more degraded or dirty, maybe being collected and recycled at facilities that aren’t as advanced as some of the recycling facilities that are processing the stuff that comes out of our homes in the U S and Canada. There’s just more to it. And there’s fewer incentives that are just making this super cost-effective, really quick, easy to plug and play. But that doesn’t make it less worthwhile to do. In fact, I think it makes it more worthwhile to do, because it means that the products that these companies are then producing are not only just cool products.

They’re not only made with sustainable materials, but they’re also made with sustainable materials that are having incredible impact in places that are left behind by the existing, like systemic structures that exist across the globe. That is not the fault of the individual people in Indonesia. It’s this whole large system.

So basically the whole point then of joining and being a part of this larger group is really that these companies are breaking down barriers for each other in terms of recommending one of the biggest parts of this is that we’re, developing a network of a global network of ocean bound plastics suppliers. And so the idea there is that they’re being able to understand where there are. Recyclers and suppliers of material that actually have good potential to deliver a product that they can turn into something that’s useful. So a lot of it is understanding who’s out there. What’s the network who’s doing this work, where are the needs? As well as connecting to the experts, whether those are the scientific experts that are figure, understanding the problem. Or the implementation experts who understand how to go in on the ground and set up a system that is socially responsible, but also, you know, environmentally beneficial in, in places with limited waste management and more. There’s the financial side. There’s a lot of that. So a lot of it is bringing all the right people together into the space and breaking down those barriers to success with working with Ocean bound plastics. Now the consortium has been around for four years and these companies are in many cases, the leaders who have charted this course.

And so we’re now turning that around and working more to develop thought leadership and, helping to guide others in navigating this space as well. We’re adding that credibility and that knowledge and kind of paying it forward as well, in terms of NextWave and our member companies contributing to additional thought leadership that grows the pie in terms of the ability to actually continue to expand and scale this industry around ocean plastic recycling.

[00:20:02] Jennifer Myers Chua: So these member companies, is there a collective goal in terms of impact?

[00:20:07] Kendall: Absolutely. In 2018, we set out with our eyes on the prize of hitting 25,000 metric, tons of Ocean bound plastic from the ocean by the end of 2025, that is equivalent to 1.2 billion single use plastic water bottles. So Yeah the scale is big. We’re aiming for a large amount for these companies to actually use. In the grand scheme of things. It is a drop in the bucket, but the idea is really. Trying to be the catalyst for then these greater systems that can kind of be up and running and continue to grow and grow and grow from there.

[00:20:46] Jennifer Myers Chua: I just had a thought, which is outside of creating things with ocean bound plastics, the NextWave member companies, are they working in other ways to reduce their use of plastic? I’m just wondering if that’s in their consciousness as well.

[00:21:00] Kendall Glauber: It’s one thing to be replacing the plastic with recycled content, but it’s another thing to be thinking about how we reduce that overall impact together in the first place. So as part of signing up for membership, each of the member companies agrees to reduce their overall use of plastic by making an assessment. What their current footprint is and then ways to reduce that overall. And many of them have been doing this even before being next wave plastics members, or are continuing to deepen their commitment to that. We don’t have a specific goal that’s based on that, but helping the member companies share that information so that they can also learn from each other, similarly, in this same forum where they’re sharing information and learning from each other about ocean bound plastic. They’re also doing that about ways to reduce their plastic overall

one great example, Trek bike ran a pilot to reduce the amount of plastic that was in the packaging for their bicycles. That goes to a bicycle store where they’d assemble the bike and then you’d purchase the bike. But it has to get there first. And there’s a lot of components that need to be properly protected in order to get from their manufacturing site, their warehouse, and then to that store. And so, they did a really comprehensive look at how do we try and get rid of every single piece of plastic in this thing that we can. And I think that they were successful down to maybe a couples, zip ties, and they were even looking into some alternative solutions and, and they’ve even really heard from many of their partners in the actual stores saying that the amount of plastic that they’re throwing away has been reduced as a result of that. And so they ran the pilot with one bike model, but it was so successful that they’re expanding that across a number of their other, bicycle models as well.

These are like wonderful companies that are doing good work. And also the delay on bicycles during the pandemic with the supply chain challenges. It’s been very real. I think what’s really a Testament to the commitment of some of these companies, is that even with the level of challenges that they’re facing in their supply chains with the pandemic and, global shipping issues, in the cost of goods going up, is that they’ve continued to be committed to their ocean bound plastic sources, the relationships that they’ve developed with suppliers and the products that they’re putting out there. We’ve continued to grow, the amount of plastic that the member companies are diverting year over year. Basically doubling each year. And that hasn’t slowed down. It’s actually accelerated since, since the pandemic. So it’s really great to see the level of commitment coming from these number companies.

[00:23:58] Jennifer Myers Chua: Do you have any other insight into the ways that we either humans or industry or small business? Just, we collectively use plastics? and how it. Existing use of plastics, maybe less than ideal.

[00:24:12] Kendall Glauber: The biggest thing is it’s not that plastic itself is bad. It’s an inert material or it’s a material out there that, serves a purpose. And so there’s many places where absolutely it makes sense to have plastic. It helps us create a lot of things that we maybe wouldn’t have invented. Otherwise it helps us ship a number of things. Further, the safer, lighter. And so there’s a lot of reasons that it makes sense to, to have plastic, to continue to use plastic. It’s more about why we’re using it. And then really what the plan is at the end of the day for what to do with it. And the biggest problem there is single use plastic hands down, across the globe. That is a problem is the single use plastic that is used once and then it never degrades. It doesn’t go away. And so, it ends up, even if it’s in a landfill, it’s taking up a ton of space in a landfill for the fact that someone was using it for a moment. And so the biggest issue. It’s really then how do we reduce the plastic that isn’t helpful.

That is more detrimental than it is useful. And like remove that from the economy in many ways, and then be able to really focus on how to be using plastic in a way that is more responsible. So. plastic packaging or reducing the use of things like the stuff you hear, people harping on all the time, plastic bags, plastic straws, plastic utensils. For example, utensils can’t be recycled. They can’t be properly captured in a municipal recycling facility and recycled into something new, uh, Exist forever and they’re just trash. And so it’s rethinking those things and how can we be creating alternatives? And then revisiting the need for single use plastic. In the meantime, it’s also about creating more robust systems for capturing and recycling the plastic. That is out there and designing products to be recyclable so that they can be captured, they can be recycled. And they then can actually be part of a more holistic system that keeps the phrase that we use all the time at next wave keeps that plastic in the economy and out of the ocean.

[00:26:52] Jennifer Myers Chua: So it should the onus beyond the brands then, or the governments that are developing these recycling systems. What do you think about that?

[00:27:00] Kendall Glauber: Absolutely. I think that the onus should definitely be on brands in many cases, that there should be a deeper level of accountability around the plastic that is being sent out, what it looks like, whether it’s recyclable and then what happens to it. It’s at its end of life.

There are many policies across the globe. We’re kind of doing the hashing out what this will look like around extended producer responsibility and having it be that the brands are more responsible for that material that they’re putting out there. But that can’t be the only thing. It’s easy to point the fingers at the big mean corporations and say, you fix the problem. There needs to be more of the system. So absolutely the governments need to be engaged in terms of creating good policy around plastic and good systems and, everything from the municipal level up to the, federal government and then consumers need to be engaged as well and take responsibility for their trash. Understand how to dispose of what they do have or return it to wherever it needs to go to get into the proper return stream at some point. So there is a role to play. I think that historically that’s been pointed towards consumers and we need to shift this to a more brand government centric and then holistic system.

So that. It’s something where everyone’s bearing some responsibility for making sure that this happens. And the thing that’s most promising about that is that the UN just released a mandate for creating a treaty on plastic and how we treat plastics as a global economy. And so I think there’s a lot of promise there in that mandate in terms of really driving for how we look at plastics and its full life cycle, not just what happens at the end of its life, once it’s been used, but really from design through use and into reuse. There’s going to be a lot of changes over the next few years in terms of how. I handled that as a like globe, and also at the state level. So lots of that? is coming so positive developments there.

[00:29:20] Jennifer Myers Chua: And someone with a design background, I am just completely enamored with these innovative ways that some of these companies are using ocean bound plastics. Anytime I see this, I just, I love to see what they’re creating. Do you have any examples that you can share from maybe businesses with the next wave, maybe without the have like use cases for products they’re creating with these plastics.

[00:29:45] Kendall Glauber: The member companies have been working on their products for anywhere from two to six or seven years at this point. More than 330 products on the market that are made with ocean bound plastic, just from these 12 companies. And so many of the products that I think are some really great examples are from HP. They really invested in this inspiring collection and recycling operation in Haiti where there is almost no waste management systems and really started. Integrating recycled bottles into ink cartridges, which is a core part of their business. It’s not like something that’s off on the side. That was like a one-off thing. They really went and integrated this into something that is a core element of their business. But they’ve really taken that commitment deeper and are innovating with this material to ensure that it can perform in a technology application.

And they’ve been able to integrate ocean bound plastic, into components that are in a huge number of their laptops, their monitors and other technology as well. So I think that that’s a really great example. I think some of the iconic ones, even that you mentioned earlier, you said you’re sitting in a Herman Miller chair, Herman Miller, just in 2021, they launched a suite of products that are made with ocean bound plastic, most iconically the Aeron chair just last year they launched these chairs and they’re in the process of rolling them out and soon all Aeron chairs will be released with Ocean bound plastic as the standard, this iconic piece within their product line. They were really looking at how do we really make an impact in something that, will make a difference. And that will really help tell this story to our customers as well.

One other thing that we haven’t talked about but that I think is really interesting is that fishing nets are also a big component of this conversation. So a lot of the plastic that we think about is the single use plastic, the water bottles, the baggies. But fishing nets are the most dangerous. type of Marine plastic pollution. And so a number of our member companies have been working with reclaimed fishing, net material in their products as well. Human scale really stands out in terms of that. They were actually the first to launch an office chair made with ocean bound plastic, they have two chairs currently, and are working to develop more products made with recycled fishing nets. And the idea is that there’s about two pounds of recycled fishing nets in each of these chairs, but these chairs are designed to last for 50 years. It’s trash. This was like going in the ocean and now it’s locked up in this chair will be around for the next 50 years at least. And so the idea really is there’s lots of different ways to go about this. There’s lots of ways to get this into packaging and other things, but what NextWave member companies have really been able to demonstrate is that it can also go into these really premium products. Whether it’s a Shinola watch or Solgaard backpack, or interface, carpeting, there’s all these places that it can go that are really designed to be these iconic products that you have around you in your life and that you live with that are making the most of, what, otherwise just would have been pollution.

[00:33:26] Jennifer Myers Chua: In terms of social impacts, like how are these communities all around the world that are, ocean front communities, how are they getting involved? And what you’re doing with NextWave… how is this impacting them?

[00:33:39] Kendall Glauber: That is a huge component of the work that we do working in the environmental space and in climate change. I think one of the things that I’ve really realized is that. That a lot of this stuff is really about people. And I think that the social component of this cannot be extricated from the environmental component. The people who are living in communities, where they don’t have waste management or oftentimes living in trash. And so what’s great about these, this work is that. In many cases. The ocean bound plastic supply chains are relying on networks of informal workers who are going out collecting plastic that’s recyclable. And selling that material to an aggregator or a recycler who we’ll sell that material on, into an ocean bound plastic supply stream, but they’re relying on that income of collecting plastic for their livelihood. What’s incredible is that waste pickers across the globe in 2016, it was estimated that they were responsible for 60% of global recycling. So at a global scale, this is our most successful recycling system. These people that are living in poverty. Oftentimes they’re part of marginalized groups, but are carrying our recycling system on their back and are the heroes of protecting the ocean from plastic. So one of the things that we focus on at NextWave is really making sure that as ocean bound plastic supply chains are being developed, the social component is absolutely central to the work that is being done. And that we’re ensuring that those workers are receiving fair pay, that they are also receiving benefits like health benefits and other support systems that can help them have better livelihoods, be able to educate their children. All of that, have it be so that their children can go and be in school and don’t have to work.

 I think some standout examples are HPS work with their partners first mile and work in Haiti where they’ve provided work over a thousand workers with jobs and have really helped to create a support system in Haiti for these workers. That then has transcended even things like the earthquake that happened there recently, they were able to help provide resources directly to many of the workers in their system to actually ensure that they were able to get whatever support they could provide. Dell technologies is doing incredible work in Indonesia and supporting communities there. And all of this within NextWave coming together to compare notes on what has been successful, what the needs are and how to ensure that social responsibility goes beyond just the factory level and down into those networks of informal workers.

One of the things that we did as a consortium was created a working group specifically on this issue. And what came out of that was a framework for what a socially responsible ocean bound plastics, supply chain looks like and it really runs through how to understand what the issues in a supply chain and then really how to lay the groundwork and the foundation for supporting a more socially responsible program and system, so that we’re really helping to articulate what are the actual challenges that are out there. And then how do you do it in a way that doesn’t just replace the systems that exist? It doesn’t just come in and say, okay, we’re going to set up our, what a, whatever a Western waste management system looks like, but really works to center the workers that are there doing this work already. And helping to improve their lives, helping to improve the systems, helping to bring more resources so that they can do that better. And that that’s can be beneficial to those that workforce and to those communities in these areas.

[00:37:53] Jennifer Myers Chua: And if you own a business and you want to create impact. Are there opportunities for businesses outside of the NextWave members to become members or interact with you in some way or benefit from your learnings even.

[00:38:07] Kendall Glauber: Absolutely. So we are constantly walking, welcoming new members to come and join this work. Any company who is interested in sourcing Ocean bound plastic. Getting it into products. Whether you are interested in trying to figure it out, and don’t really know where to get started or maybe. There may be some who are further down the line and have already been testing material or developed products, but want to be a part of a group that can help to continue to scale what they’re doing or maybe you’ve come up across specific roadblock that you need to work through, and it might be helpful to have some folks who can help you kind of sort through the challenges that you might be facing to figure out a way through, to be successful with using this material. That’s what we’re here for. We’re looking to grow and to scale this and to expand the impact that we’re able to have to get. And I would say though, that there are a number of resources that are coming out of NextWave. If you maybe aren’t ready to make the leap for membership. things like the framework for social responsibility are really useful tools for navigating some of the ambiguity of this space.

One thing that we have coming out this year is a series of case studies that we’re calling our changemaker series and that’s going to come out in april and may and June of this year, it’ll be a running series with one coming out every week. That’ll focus on a particular topic where NextWave member companies have had key learnings or found particular success or work through a particular challenge. And so just keeping an eye out for those and, taking a look at what information might be most useful for you there? I’m always happy to talk to companies who are trying to figure out how, how do we have better impact is Ocean bound plastic, the right thing for us. And if it is where do we go next? And I’d love to help on that.

[00:40:14] Jennifer Myers Chua: So if I’m a small business owner and I’m creating a product you think there’s an opportunity for me to access ocean bound plastic waste, or would this be an option as this community grows? Like what can a small business owner do in terms of creating this impact in this way?

[00:40:31] Kendall Glauber: Yeah, it’s a great question. And there’s a lot of really incredible small companies that I’ve talked to, who really are invested in being able to do that. I think the biggest challenge is that there is a issue of scale and needing to have a certain level of scale that you’re operating at for it. Then to make economic sense to. Be able to buy the material. And also there’s the challenge sometimes of finding manufacturers who can make a product that you might want to make for your business, that know how to work with ocean bound plastic, or have that in their wheelhouse. There are definitely some that can work at that smaller scale. But I think that it’s going to be the best fit for kind of small to mid-sized businesses who are able to start with kind of a larger investment or that have existing products and are already operating at scale and then want to integrate ocean bound plastic into some existing product lines.

 If you’re really starting from something new it can be challenging, but it isn’t impossible. It really is about finding the right partners. And so I think that in terms of finding the right suppliers out there who might be able to connect you up and provide the right information. There’s some that I would maybe point you in the direction of, and I’m happy to be a resource for anyone who’s interested in that. As well as really just seeking out information from others in the space who have done this, finding out who they’re working with and then piecing it together from there. The one thing I would say is. Don’t be afraid of making mistakes or potentially getting push back. As I said, this is about creating a system where systems don’t exist. So it isn’t as plug and play as it might be nice to have it be. But that doesn’t mean that it’s impossible and that it doesn’t mean that it’s not worthwhile. Keep seeking information, seeking champions who do know this space and continuing to push forward to try and see what you can do.

After your work with ocean experts and Lonely Whale. And now all of these heads of businesses that are working with plastics. I can only imagine that you have a lot of insight into how we as a society are changing how we interact with plastics. I’m just wondering if this has made you more hopeful for our future.

A thousand percent. So much more hopeful for what we can create. I am also scared. I will say that there’s a lot of things that can, and absolutely will go wrong in terms of creating a more sustainable future, where we use materials and natural resources more wisely. Where we treat our natural systems with respect and dignity, and. I can see it. And I think what’s sometimes really difficult is knowing maybe an end destination that feels like this utopia and looking at where we are now, which is that plastic producing is, is plastic. Production is increasing and plastic pollution is increasing and all of that. It’s those data day shifts the little incremental, tiny things that people are doing every day, um, that are moving us more towards that utopian future. And that’s a lot of what we work towards at lonely whale as a organization. But really what I see come to life through NextWave is , I’m not talking to Dell technologies. Like I’m talking to this specific individual who is instigating change in this organization and helping to figure out ways to really articulate why it makes sense for a huge company like Dell to invest in this project to help communities in Indonesia who have too much plastic waste. And the fact that they’ve been able to go from this nugget of an idea to launching products out in the world, that they’re able to tell this story to their customers. is an upswell.

That’s something that’s growing and that can continue to grow. And so I think that in walking through that, like sometimes slow, excruciating process of change. That doesn’t seem like it’s going anywhere. I see that it’s going somewhere and I can understand that, like that is how change happens. It doesn’t happen in like this huge. Sweeping change. It may happen sometimes in leaps and bounds, but a lot of it is about that, like that preparation work and the individuals who are committed to not being afraid to be like, I see this opportunity. Let’s go get it.

[00:45:40] Jennifer Myers Chua: If you want to learn more about NextWave, the member companies and how they’re making waves by choosing ocean bound plastics, visit https://www.nextwaveplastics.org/. You can follow along with NextWave on their mission to keep plastic in the economy and out of the ocean on Twitter at next waves, plastics without the first E. Want to support lonely whale as a business. 1% for the planet members, you can find them listed as a nonprofit, and they’re always looking for new brands to join NextWave’s consortium.

Kate Pepler from the Tare Shop was feeling overwhelmed with the doom and gloom narrative of our earth’s health and decided to do something about it. In this episode, we learn how Kate’s lifelong relationship with the water and a move to a coastal town influenced how she sees the world. We discover how Kate’s passions including sailing and environmental education and community building led her to entrepreneurship, we chat about why Kate decided to open a package-free store and cafe,  how shopping habits are shifting, why reducing plastic pollution is so important to her, how we can influence the world around us by choosing to support and shop mindfully, and how the interest in reducing waste, and a strong community focus had led to the Tare Shops success.

If you want to learn more about Kate, package free living and shop her carefully curated collection of low waste goods, visit thetareshop.com. Looking to learn more about zero-waste? And the steps you can take to reduce plastic in your life? There are a lot of tips and resources in Kate’s blog. If you want to follow along with Kate on her mission to make package-free living accessible on Instagram at @thetareshop

Episode Transcript

 

[00:02:29] Jennifer: It’s summer in Bedford, Nova Scotia, and Kate Peppler is teaching sailing as she has been for the last few summers. Having grown up with a love for water and the outdoors. Kate felt like she was in her element and it looked like her future would include spending summers on Canada’s east coast teaching and then sailing south for the winters. But after graduating from university with a degree in sustainability, environmental science and Marine biology. Kate was feeling depressed and overwhelmed by the state of the world.

[00:04:03] Kate: It felt like I spent five years studying all the ways that we just destroying the planet without much like positive focus or here’s what has been done. Here’s what is happening. So after graduating, I started a website called our positive planet, which was really just for like my mental health. The whole purpose behind it was to share environmental success stories to inspire action. When I just get bombarded with the doom and gloom, I kind of just want to bury my head in the sand and ignore it all, or turn on Netflix and not take anything else new in But when I read about other folks doing inspiring things, that’s what really inspires me. So by sharing positive environmental success stories, I was trying to help like drag myself out of that doom and gloom slump. So I, through that, I started reading about these zero waste stores popping up all over and kind of got inspired to try to reduce my own waste.

[00:04:53] Jennifer: And with that, Kate began to look at ways to reduce her own waste, beginning to feel excited about the opportunity to create change. In Halifax where she lived, she was struggling to do so. There was no retail outlet that made plastic free living easy or accessible. And in the off season from sailing, Kate would run around to a variety of shops for a variety of things, without packaging realizing that this isn’t realistic for most people with full-time jobs or families to care for. And through setting some personal challenges for herself when it came to tracking and reducing waste. And blogging about her environmental wins and challenges, Kate began to realize that there was a gap to be filled in her community. And she set out to create a one-stop shop for bulk, grocery and personal care, all package free. And in the years, since The Tare Shop has opened. They’ve expanded, created a strong community following and Kate has continued teaching. Something she loves to do. Although now she teaches individuals, schools, and companies, how to make more sustainable choices.

[00:06:00] Kate: I grew up on Toronto island, which is a small community. There’s about 250 people who live there. It’s a largely car-free community, just a 10 minute ferry ride from downtown Toronto. So I grew up spending a lot of time in nature. The school goes up to grade six on the island, and then you have to go into the city. Until my last year, I think there was no playground or play structures. It was like a field and trees and we played outside. We built forts. We toboggan down a hill.

I grew up sailing, doing canoe trips and loved swimming. I live like a couple of minutes from the beach on the island. And I remember as a kid, seeing a ton of garbage on the beaches always and not really piecing together why that might be or where it comes from. I remember there’s always like the plastic tampon applicators. Oh, there’s like a lot of women on boats with periods. Cause this is like on the water that came from the water. Not understanding that big disconnect that garbage in the water largely comes from land, not from boats. So I think I, yeah, I’ve always been loved being outside and being in nature. And I think we can’t even say any more that we need to protect the environment for future generations. We need to protect it for our generation. Like we are directly seeing impacts of climate change and pasta pollution today. Like this isn’t a future problem. It’s a definitely a future problem, but it’s also a very much a right now problem.

[00:07:28] Jennifer: Do you think that growing up on an island, even though, like you said, you’re only 10 minutes away from downtown Toronto. but you think that really I’m trying to think of what the difference would be between someone who has the opportunity to grow up climbing trees and going out and swimming within a two minute walk from someone that lives in like an urban center. I’m wondering if you think that was an influence on your life.

[00:07:49] Kate: I definitely think so, but also like everybody’s different. I might have friends who grew up on the island who don’t feel that same deep connection that I do or like alternatively, there could be kids who grew up in very like urban environments who do also feel the deep connection. So I think it was partly, we like live growing up on Toronto island, but also like my parents. We went on camping trips as a kid and Northern Ontario. I feel like I’ve always been exposed to nature in a very special way.

[00:08:18] Jennifer: Was there a moment in your life where you ever said that you wanted to create change, come wondering how you got to here. Like really you’re an advocate for change. I was wondering if you know, when that fire started inside of you.

[00:08:33] Kate: I’ve never thought of it that I can’t think of like a, a pivotal moment. In my life where I was like, I need to, to be a change maker if or create change. Growing up again on the island. Like it’s a very, it was very close community. So we knew all of our neighbors. So I feel like I’ve always had a deep sense of community that I’ve loved. I was running the sailing school for six years. So through that, like built a big community around the sailing school. Like I grew the participation from like, A very small number to like a very, very large number and the time that I was there. So again, like coming back to that like community and like fostering that community minded spirit I think is really important to me. And I think via The Tare Shop have again, created another community of people who want to shop differently and want to shop smart.

[00:09:26] Jennifer: So, how did you come up with the actual idea for the business and then how did you move it forward and actually create a business from your idea?

[00:09:32] Kate: The idea for The Tare Shop came about just by reading about other package, free stores, popping up all over, knowing that I wanted one in Halifax. And in university, I remember like being in like an environmental course or sustainability course and just seeing. Tim Horton’s cups and almost every single students that like disposable cups and like, people will just do what is easy for them. So it’s just easiest for them to grab a to-go cup. They’re just always going to grab that to go. So thinking it would be cool to have a zero waste cafe that just doesn’t have disposable coffee cups. And I had kind of forgotten about that for a couple of years until the idea? for The Tare Shop started in my brain and thought that would be a really cool way to tie a coffee shop into a grocery store so that it’s not just a place where people go. It can then again, become a, like a community space, host events Makes it a little bit more of an experience than, than just going grocery shopping.

And then I was home one January visiting my family, and we were all lying on my bed, hanging out, discussing The Tare Shop. It was like very, very early, early days and dreaming up what the name could be. And I forgot who said it, but maybe my mom or my sister said Tare, Tare Shop, The Tare Shop?

Tare is the deduction of the container weight which ties again into that bulk shopping. And then to start it, I spent a year or two thinking about the business plan. Writing. Putting it down. Cause I was like, I can’t do this. I don’t know how to run a business. That’s a really important step. A, any lender is going to need to see your business plan to make sure you know what you’re doing, but it’s really also. Was really helpful to think out all the different aspects and make you do your research and your homework.

So writing the business plan, coming up with cashflow projections, which was really hard because there’s no market research or data on what people spend at a bulk store. So I ended up using social media. As I’m like a huge tool to do that research. So ask people, like, what do you spend on groceries a week? What do you spend at the bulk store? How often do you go? And use that data to help inform my cashflow projections? And then I was trying to find a property by myself. Eventually was like, I don’t know how to talk to commercial property people or big building owners. So ended up finding an amazing woman, Linda who helped me find both locations for, for The Tare Shop. Was a huge advocate and helping me understand what, what were my rights and what I was allowed to ask for.

[00:12:05] Jennifer: And if anyone hasn’t been to a store like yours, could you explain how that works and what the experience is like of going to like a zero waste store? I think a lot of people don’t have access to those yet in their communities. Lots of room for you to expand.

[00:12:19] Kate: So every store is going to be different. Company or business will have their own way of doing things. So I can speak to what The Tare Shop is like. So you walk in, you bring your own containers but if you don’t have any, we also sell repurpose containers for 50 cents. Just there’s already, we don’t sell new containers because there’s already so many containers in the waste stream already.

So folks can donate their containers to us and we’ll wash them and sanitize them. The 50 cents just to help recoup some of that labor for sanitizing and, and managing all that. So then you bring your containers up to the counter and this staff will weigh all of your containers. And we’ve. And we’ve found that to be a really important piece, that some other stores, you weigh your own containers, but we really like weighing the customer’s containers. Cause again, it is a lot of people’s first times doing this, or maybe COVID happen. And they haven’t been in, in a couple of years, so they forget how things work.

When people come in, we have that opportunity to check in, see how they’re doing, see how their day’s going and offer up that piece of education. So have they been here before? Do you need a refresher on how it works? And then once the containers are all weighed, we have filling stations. And that was the thing that came out of COVID that will stick around forever for us. Before we didn’t have a designated place where you did your filling people kind of just like perched up on the countertops or on the coffee tables. So now we actually have different stations where you can put all of your containers.

Bring the jar of almonds and chocolate caramels to your station. And do the filling there instead of trying to juggle glass jars above the ground. And then the beauty and one of my favorite reasons to shop package free is that if you only need a teaspoon of something for a recipe, you can literally just buy a teaspoon. This was probably Thanksgiving Canadian Thanksgiving. So late October mid-October I dunno. But we had just been open and a dad came in who was visiting their kid and was cooking the Thanksgiving meal and the kid didn’t have any of the right spices. So the dad came in and bought like, exactly. The number of teaspoons of each spice that he needed to make their family tradition meal. And that was so cool because I think that really just like highlights, you don’t need to buy a huge quantity if you just need a little bit. And then, Yeah. So once you fill up all of your containers, you bring them back And the staff deducts the container weight from the total, since the name Tare.

[00:14:51] Jennifer: And when you began to stock your shelves, when you’ve opened your store on your, began to stock your shelves, and you began to look into conventional goods that are available through wholesale, did you find anything surprising?

[00:15:03] Kate: What has surprised me pleasantly is the number of local suppliers who are willing to work with us and trade containers back and forth so that we don’t have their products packaged. That’s been a really happy happy surprise and like so grateful for all of our suppliers. There hasn’t been anything that’s been like too shocking or two surprise. But one thing that I did, that was pretty interesting for bringing in products. When we opened the first store we used, I think it was literally like 40 products that we stocked. And these were things that I again use the social media to, to ask people what they wanted us to sell and pick the most important ones or the most common ones.

And then we’ve brought products in and we’ve grown our offerings based on customer requests. So. The only products that haven’t moved or haven’t sold well, are the ones that I brought in that nobody had asked for. So that way we know what we are selling people want, and it won’t go to waste.

[00:16:03] Jennifer: And I assume that your background in sustainability does give you an unique advantage here, but has it in, let me try that again, but has it influenced how you make purchasing decisions when you are shopping for your store?

[00:16:16] Kate: I think being really. Like cautious, like, especially with any of the lifestyle products, making sure that I’m research thing, researching them to make sure that the company is one that we align with them, want to work with and even just like down to values and avoiding greenwashing. Which is unfortunately very, very common now is being eco and natural and sustainable is very trendy.

Making sure that the companies are doing what they’re saying they are doing.

[00:16:50] Jennifer: Yeah. As someone who owns a distribution company, myself too, one of the things that is always top of mind for us, uh, and it’s really the, the impacts of shipping.

And packaging. And it’s something that I think that most people don’t consider, like they’ll go into a store, they’ll think, oh, it’s local, because they’re only thinking about how they’re getting that from the shelf into their own home.

But they’re not necessarily thinking about how it got here in the first place. What are the costs associated? What are the costs associated with creating something like a traditional. Retail store in terms of environmental impact, like what else are you considering that we’re not thinking about.

[00:17:33] Kate: That’s such a great question. Cause even when I was living, like I still live low waste, but I used to have like the trash jar that I like recorded my waste in. Cause I think that’s a great tool to understand the type of waste you’re creating.

But even then, like that’s not the whole picture. You don’t see the waste that the store had, the packing material that it came to them and you don’t see all of the upstream waste as well. So I think the upstream waste is a huge piece that we don’t see. And all of those, like yeah. Upstream costs. So the emissions that that product took to get from where it was manufactured, the materials, the, where it was manufactured to getting it to the distributor, to get it to the retail store.

So all of those emission costs all of the social costs. So was the product did. Employer who made the product, pay their employees fairly with fair wages? How were they workers treated? So those are all, and I, you can’t talk about.

environmental issues without talking about social issues. They’re so intertwined.

So those are also all hidden costs and like with things like fast fashion the material is so, or the product is so cheap because all of those other costs are being captured in the product. They aren’t paying their workers fairly. They aren’t regarding any environmental impact, most likely. So those costs just aren’t being captured in those products.

[00:18:55] Jennifer: And so you’ve achieved B Corp certification. Congratulations. As a small business owner.

Exactly. Uh, as a small business owner, who’s been going on that journey for some time. Now I cannot imagine how difficult that was for you. Congrats.

But I’d like to talk about what certifications like that mean to you.

So if you’re sourcing products at wholesale, are you looking for certain certifications? And what does that tell you about the products that are certified? I was just wondering how important certifications are to you as someone who is in retail.

[00:19:31] Kate: Yeah, definitely. If we are deciding between two companies, One is B Corp certified, and one is not we’ll pick the B Corp certified as the consumer or somebody purchasing. It just takes away that research that you might want to do before looking into a product, because you know that the company has been through a rigorous process to get certified, you know, that they are doing what they’re saying, they’re doing, they’re putting their money where their mouth is, or whatever that saying is And they’re yeah, they’re committed to, as like B Corp slogan, they’re committed to using business as a force of good.

So obviously companies need to be making money to be successful, but at least like my definition of success is so much more deeper than that because I th I think a lot about impact and like the impact that my company has. So, Yeah, for like certifications, like B Corp are so good because they are helping to spread awareness and this movement of using business to create change and be a force for good is catching on and just gaining in popularity, which is so important.

And yeah, I forget where I was going with that.

[00:20:36] Jennifer: One thing that I love to add to this conversation, or one thing that I love to ask. Whenever this comes up is how do you think that impact business is resonating with consumers? Do you think that consumer behavior is shifting at the same pace that business owners are starting to think about

[00:20:50] Kate: impact?

A couple of things. I think that the business owners who are on top of it and aware of these trends and thinking this way, they are probably moving a bit quicker than the consumers, but I think the consumers are catching up. And already, like, I feel like in the last couple of years Consumers are getting smarter and more aware of the impacts that products have that businesses have and are starting to demand different and demand better and demand more transparency from the places that they shop at. So I think that businesses who aren’t thinking, and that’s not saying everybody has to be B Corp certified but people, businesses who aren’t. Being transparent and dark. Aren’t being forthright about what the impact that their businesses have. I think they will lose customers and they will lose some of their customer base because of that, for sure.

[00:21:50] Jennifer: So you started the shop with feedback from people on social media, giving you input into what to stock your shelves, which, which I love, but what was the moment that you realized that this could work or that people would actually be interested in supporting a business idea like this?

[00:22:05] Kate: When we announced the business on social media, it was such a scary thing because once you put it out there, you can’t take it back.

You can not do it, but you can’t. You can’t take it away. And like right away within the first couple of weeks, I was flooded with messages and emails. Emails and then messages from social media of people saying that they were so excited to shop this way. And they were so excited for The Tare Shop to open.

Cause they’d been trying to reduce their waste and it just hasn’t been possible or accessible to them. So right away that was like a pretty good, like, okay, we’re good. This is gonna work. And then you run all the numbers that you. I can guess and can make up educated guesses for your cashflow projections.

And almost right away, my numbers, the sales were way better than I ever expected them to be. More people were excited to be shopping this way. A lot of people in the direct community shopped because it was just closer than, than driving or walking to, to the bigger stores farther away. So that was another like, okay, like we’ve got this, this is going to work.

And another thing that I wasn’t expecting at all, but pretty much from even before we opened. Every week we would get messages. When are you opening up a tear shop in this community, this city, this town this province. So all over the country, I’ve had requests for Terra shops. So that was another really cool thing that I didn’t expect, but so many people would be so into this idea and wanted a tear shop in their community.

[00:23:37] Jennifer: And so I was looking around within your social media, I’m looking at your community and this, this real community feel that you have built with your followers. And one of the things that I. Really makes your store special to the people that love you really is that you do a lot of other things about X in order to be accessible.

Can we talk about your accessibility initiatives within your shop? Cause I think that they’re, they’re really exciting and interesting to talk about

[00:24:07] Kate: Yeah. So that was the I think, yeah, we would never open up a tear shop in a building, like even just base level building that wasn’t accessible. Folks with physical disabilities or mobility aids already have such a hard time navigating.

Really, especially really old cities like health facts. So being aware, just reducing that one barrier and then in our store making sure that it’s accessible for folks all walks of lives, making sure that it’s an inclusive, inviting, welcoming non-judgment space. And we have accessibility policies on our website. Like ensuring that our social media is accessible. So anytime we post a video with speech or text we include captions any time that we post a photo, we have an image description and our hashtags use camel case, which just means that the first letter of each hashtag is re within the hashtag is capitalized. Making sure that we eat like, even as simple as like having kids toys in the space, so that it’s a bit easier for a parent with young kids to come and shop, they can plot their kids down in front of the toy bin or books the kids can play while the parents do their shop. And that’s been such a special thing us.

[00:25:23] Jennifer: I love the scent free thing too. Cause I’m a scent. We’re a scent free family.

[00:25:27] Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Even like, there’s so many things that you, as somebody, without any barriers or accessibility needs that you might not even think about. So like all of the cleaning products that we use are scent free and we do sell scented products, but they’re all closed, so they don’t smell In the space.

And then like lights and sounds. We’re always happy to turn the music off or pause the music. Dim, the lights they’re all on dimmers if somebody needs to. So we don’t have like designated times, like I know Walmart might, or some other big stores might have designated times. But we’re happy to do that at all.

At any point of the day

[00:26:04] Jennifer: In your journey in specifically throughout the pandemic, have you encountered any other really big challenges?

[00:26:13] Kate: Not including COVID.

[00:26:15] Jennifer: I think there, I think COVID has just maybe amplified.

So our challenges as

[00:26:20] Kate: Yeah, definitely. Like even from the beginning, like I was 24 when I noticed the business, if my math is and memory are correct. And like I looked pretty young, so just even getting people to take me seriously and where the chair shop was such a new concept. There was no store in the province, like the chair shop Getting lenders to believe in what I was doing.

I had one lender who told me that my paraphrasing business plan was stupid. I would need plastic bags and disposable coffee cups to, to be successful. So, yeah, even just like getting people bought in on this idea has well, the community’s been very supportive getting some of the people in suits with the money to take me seriously.

But yeah, that COVID, yeah, it’s just amplified. Every challenge. And while we’ve been fortunate enough not to have any like labor issues and getting incredible folks on our team the labor shortages have affected some of our suppliers. So some of our suppliers locally, even, and who are able to do deliveries every day are now down to a couple of times a week managing like all the, yeah, the labor shortages, how they affect suppliers and leads, lead times being so unpredicted.

The w worst one was we placed an order, usually a weekly time, like four weeks, we still hadn’t heard. And it had all been paid for upfront. And then all of those little delays like that just really affect your cashflow. So it makes it harder to make that next purchase because your cashflow has been tied up for a while.

[00:27:54] Jennifer: And when we saw people hoarding toilet paper and, and, uh, when we saw people lie selling their groceries and wearing gloves every time they opened doors, I’m sure that that shift in like collective mindset really effected you and probably rattled you quite a bit. How did you feel when that happened?

Like what was going through your mind when COVID hit? And we were all, all of a sudden, so worried about things like sanitation, what was that?

[00:28:24] Kate: Oh, my gosh, it was so scary. I wish I kept like a journal or a diary even just to see how like, cause I feel like a trauma response is you don’t really remember. So I remember being terrified. But I don’t necessarily remember the feelings too deeply.

But yeah, it was so scary. I was in Toronto for a conference and got back like the Saturday night at like midnight before the world shut down. And just even. Yeah, asking staff to work. I wasn’t comfortable with staff working. They weren’t comfortable working, so laid everybody off. And I went back to working on the floor zero hours a week to working on the floor six days a week by myself.

Doing all the shopping for people. So people would come in and they’d stand in like one spot and I would do all the filling for them. Again, it was just all so unknown. And I remember wearing like gloves instead of a mask. Cause I thought that we just thought that was the safer thing. Didn’t realize how aerosol like transmittable by air.

It was and. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was really, really intense. And I would go grocery shopping. Typically, what did the grocery shopping for my household? Cause I was already out in the community and would come home and just like sod. It was so intense to be everybody also just got, we lost that, that community feel and that co like shared experiences.

Everybody was so tunnel vision and focused on themselves. Even like walking out on the street. Like nobody was saying hi to anybody else. Everybody was like looking down, looking away. So absorbed in like their own safety and their own wellbeing. There was one walk, my partner and I went on like April 20, 20, so peak, scary, scary times.

We were like, okay, we’re both like very low, very sad today. Let’s get out. Move our body get some fresh air and it just made it so much worse. Cause there was like police ticketing, people like walk cutting through the commons, which is a big field in Halifax. Like people are reading ticketed for being outside.

Everybody was like, so like wrapped up and, and, and yeah, not social and not friendly anymore. So that?

was a big mind shift and, and, and emotional mental thing to get over.

[00:30:50] Jennifer: Do you feel like a lot of customers of yours kind of rejected the idea of bulk or refill at that time?

[00:30:56] Kate: I think a lot of people did.

And. Like rightfully so it was a scary time. But it was pretty early on in the pandemic that there was a report issued by hundreds of, or over 125. I think it was like doctors and scientists and health professionals who said that using reusables was safe as long as they were clean, which for food health, safety, anyways, they should be clean.

So, and we like my waist to also definitely increase through dependent. But there was a lot of our regular customers. We probably lost for a bit there, but a lot who were so grateful to be able to like at least keep this part of normalcy and keep this way of reducing waste alive in their lives.

And also nice to like go somewhere where they felt very safe. A lot of the feedback that we got was this was like one of the only stores they felt safe going into. Cause it was just me and them. And I also definitely became like an emotional, like dumping ground for people who, some people come in and be like, I haven’t talked to another adult in like a week, like here’s my life.

Which was a lot, but, but nice to connect with customers as well.

[00:32:04] Jennifer: And now that COVID is kind of alleviating at least in terms of the way that we are all interacting with the world. Again, I know that. The zero waste living or low waste living took a huge hit through all of this. Like everybody, I was ordering my groceries. They were coming in plastic bags. It was eating my heart.

Every time, every time I had to wear a disposable mask, as opposed to a cloth mask, I throwing out it’s, it’s eating me inside. Are you seeing a shift now of people go. You know, extra in the direction of zero waste or being more mindful of waste after living through this like massive waste stream of the last two years.

Like, how is this shifting as someone who’s really on ground level

[00:32:46] Kate: here?

Yeah. I think people are even the people who might not have been very aware. Now aware, cause you can even see in the number of like garbage bags that you’re throwing out that waste all of our wastes have increased. So I think the people who were already trying are definitely committed to doing this and, and trying to live with less impact.

And I think I, yeah, I trying to stay optimistic, but I think. This has shifted things and we see have seen the impacts and know that we, that we need better for, for our world today than we have been doing.

[00:33:26] Jennifer: And when you’re speaking to your customers about taking steps or taking action in order to live a more sustainable life. What is your like top tip? What is the number one thing you tell people to do when they are coming to you as an expert and asking you what they can do to live more sustainably?

[00:33:45] Kate: The first tip, I always tell folks is to use up what you already have. So it’s way more wasteful to go to your pantry or your bathroom or your cleaning closet And throw out everything in there and replace it all. It’s a huge waste of resources. It’s a huge waste of money. So use up what you have and then as your bottle of cleaning, spray runs out refill that.

So we have. Like all purpose, cleaner concentrate. So refill things as you run out, instead of going and replacing it all and even like the plastic mop that you have is more sustainable than going out and buying like a, all bamboo one. So using what you already have is the most sustainable option.

And then the next thing I would say is be kind to yourself Yeah, this is all about like building habits and changing your mindset and that stuff doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time, it takes practice. And if you cave and buy a coffee in a disposable cup, like it’s not the end of the world remember to bring your mug next time or be being aware yeah, not beating yourself up if getting to a bulk shop isn’t accessible to you.

That’s okay. There’s other things that you can do to lessen your.

[00:34:57] Jennifer: And what about a small business owner? What is something that they can do to lessen their impact? Like what would you suggest to someone like me or someone who owns a business in your

[00:35:07] Kate: That’s a great one. I think being really. Like doing your research.

The number of business owners that have asked me about the compostable coffee cups, they’re not actually compostable in the majority of municipalities. They go to the landfill and just something compostable in the landfill isn’t necessarily better than something. Not like a garbage piece of garbage in the landfill.

So in the amount of business owners I’ve had, who asked me and I’m like, I hate to tell it to you. That’s not compostable. And they’ve spent more money per cup or whatever the product is on this like green sustainable compostable, PLA, uh, cup than they normally would have. So they’ve wasted a lot of money.

So yeah. Do your research. It takes a little bit of time, but at least in HRM, there’s waste educators who are always really be happy to chat And answer questions. So tap into the resources in your community and do your research before buying like a green product.

[00:36:06] Jennifer: And I think B Corp was a really big eye-opener for me, at least in terms. That kind of stuff. Of course, like really evaluating our business, which we already thought we were doing great. You know, we already had been so mindful of all these decisions, but going through the B Corp process has really opened our eyes to making those small changes.

But one thing as an outsider, And at first and B Corp, when I wasn’t involved at all. And I had never really heard about it before. I did know that sustainability was a big part of B Corp and I knew it was about protecting the earth. But what I did not know was that B Corp has such a community focus. And I was wondering since you’ve gone through B Corp and gone through the certification, how have you chose to.

What’s the word, how can we say this? How are you benefiting your community? I’m wondering what your community action oriented events are.

[00:37:09] Kate: Yeah.

[00:37:09] Jennifer: Are you serving your community?

[00:37:11] Kate: yeah, I love that. Yeah. One thing I think a lot of people don’t realize is that B Corp, isn’t just like in a focus on environmental. It’s also all about social And then community impact as well.

So I was inspired by 1% for the planet. But instead of doing 1%. Two different environmental organization. I wanted the, to give to directly to the community, so different organizations in the community, but also we’ve given to like go fund me campaigns and things like that. So very like direct community oriented organizations.

So one each quarter we donate 1% of our sales to a different community organization. And those are nominated by the community, voted on with the staff. And so that’s like one piece, we run events, we host other makers and creators for popups. We don’t charge people for that. It’s just a way to like bring people into the space.

And especially after COVID regained some of that community feel to the space. And yeah, like offering up our space, offering up our platform to community members, being, sharing things, amplifying voices is really important.

[00:38:17] Jennifer: And what about our children or the children in your community, the adults of the future. How do you think that the work that you’ve done is impacting them? Like, what do you think about the future of Halifax or the future of all of us as we explore zero.

[00:38:34] Kate: I think kids are so smart. And yeah, educating the kids is a huge piece of this. I think that’s how, like the recycling initiatives started. They went into schools and educated all of the kids and the kids went home and taught the parents how to, how to recycle.

So yeah, making sure that we are educating the kids and, and not necessarily like not sugar coating things. But doing it in a way that inspires them to create change or to change up habits or to encourage their parents to change up habits or guardians instead of like scaring them. Cause I definitely got scared in university.

And whereas I think if I had been aspired, it would have been like, I would have emotionally felt different for sure. So educating kids in a way that inspires them. So I love going into schools and giving talks and, and talking to youth groups, I’ve done a ton of those, especially pre COVID.

[00:39:30] Jennifer: I’m wondering if you’ve heard. I’ve seen a couple memes lately and I haven’t explored it at all, but, like grocery shopping in the 1950s and how different it was for now. Have you seen these memes?

[00:39:42] Kate: I don’t. I think I’ve seen like one, but one thing that I didn’t expect when we open, I kind of expected like young woman to be our primary target market. But what I didn’t expect was like 60 plus year olds to come in and being like, this is how we used to shop. This is amazing that we can shop this way again. So, yeah, we like plastic is a new invention. It hasn’t been around forever. And all shopping used to be packaged or plastic free.

I think the more locations that we have, the more impact that we can have, and the more common this becomes this way of shopping way of thinking just becomes more like mainstream and, and easier for folks.

[00:40:22] Jennifer: And do you think we’re going to get there?

[00:40:24] Kate: Yes, I do.

[00:40:26] Jennifer: If you want to learn more about Kate, package- free living and how to shop her carefully curated collection of low waste goods. Visit thetareshop.com. Looking to learn more about zero waste and the steps you can take to reduce plastic in your life. There are a lot of tips and resources on the Tare Shop’s blog. If you want to follow along with Kate on her mission to make package free living accessible. You can do so on Instagram @thetareshop

Monique Chan from Bruized takes scraps destined for the compost bin and creates delicious treats. In this episode, we learn how time spent in restaurant prep kitchens led Monique to look at food waste differently. And explore the economic and environmental costs of what gets thrown away. We discover how she sources imperfect ingredients that would otherwise be discarded from local groceries and farmer’s market vendors. And upcycles these and to healthy plant-based snacks. We chat about how she feels about food insecurity and the need for systematic change. What shifts do we need to take to deal with waste, how she plans to grow her business with local hubs over distribution. And how she’s hopeful that others will join in to find innovative ways to make our food systems more sustainable.

If you want to learn more about Monique and how she’s embracing imperfect to make feel-good food for the planet and the people around us or order some of her delicious pulp crunch visit bruized.com. You can follow along with Monique on her mission to upcycle imperfect produce into wholesome eats on Instagram at @bruizedco

Links from this episode

• Bruized

• UNEP Food Waste Index Report 2021

• Where are grocers in the war on food waste? Canadian Grocer

• Scrappy Cooking ‘Tok

Episode Transcript

[00:02:19] Jennifer Chua: This may or may not come as a surprise, but a lot of food is wasted worldwide each year. 17% of the food produced in 2021 was wasted globally. That’s 931 million tons. The United Nations Environment Program Food Waste Index Report 2021 suggests that the worst offenders are consumers with 61% of the waste happening at home. It’s easy to envision that. You make the Tik TOK salad. It was too much to eat. And after a couple of meals, you throw the rest in the green bin along with the broccoli stems or that forgotten spring mix in the back of the fridge. 26% comes from food service, and we’ll be talking about how all that waste comes to be in just a bit. 13% comes from retail and grocery, but there is a misconception here. You may immediately think spoiled or rotting food is all that is tossed, but plenty of it is still edible.

An article in Canadian grocer. Which I’m putting in the show notes, suggests that this waste takes a huge toll on the environment. Produce rotting in landfills releases methane of course, but wasted food also means wasted resources. Water, energy, and the greenhouse gas emissions that occur along the supply chain. From production to packaging shipping and then disposal. This article is really worth a read. It also highlights that we waste enough energy to power 274 million homes. Which personally I found a little surprising.

[00:04:36] Jennifer Chua: Healthy, delicious, and fully sustainable meals can be created upcycled from food that would otherwise go to waste. Organizations along the food chain are tackling food loss and waste or making efforts to do so, by procuring ingredients, not fit for human consumption. Or just not fit for sale. By using things like unused fruits and vegetables to create new products, innovators are finding ways along the supply chain to minimize food waste and create positive environmental impact.

Innovators like Monique Chan.

[00:05:06] Monique Chan: My name’s Monique Chan and I’m the founder of Bruized and Bruized is a women-run startup from Toronto. All about upcycling imperfect ingredients that are discarded across our supply chain and creating healthy plant-based snacks from them.

[00:05:21] Jennifer Chua: Monique studied international development and nutrition with a focus on food waste in her last year at the University of Guelph. And in that time, she had also fallen into a social circle that hosted vegan meetups and bonded over plant-based potlucks. This period of her life left her profoundly changed. And this newfound knowledge sparked inspiration to create a change in the current food industry. With her complimenting passions of plant-based cooking, sustainability and health, Monique envisioned a business and community that could highlight all of these topics and thus Bruized was born.

[00:05:55] Monique Chan: Our main product is called pulp crunch and it’s a high fibre granola cluster that is made with a base of organic juice pulp rescue from a local Juicery. And we take this juice pulp. That’s usually just thrown in a composter or ends up in a landfill and we take all those nutrients and fibre to create a really wholesome snack that’s filling but light at the same time. We sweeten it naturally with ripe bananas we get from retail stores and also feature imperfect apple chunks in our original flavour from a local farmer. And then that’s all dehydrated with oats, coconut and sunflower seeds. So it’s all. Gluten-free nut-free vegan. And it’s really filling and fueling for your day.

Before Bruized, I was mainly trying to figure out my life. I still am. I think everyone goes through that. Fresh out of university and. Finding like part-time jobs. I ended up working a lot more with food as a line cook in restaurants and, I really had a passion for food and cooking and I, I could see my future somewhere in that industry. From learning more about food waste and then seeing the, the waste in my everyday jobs, I made that connection that I wanted to create something that helped to solve this problem.

[00:07:16] Jennifer Chua: Do you remember when you first became interested in sustainability? Like, is there a moment that stands out in your mind?

[00:07:23] Monique Chan: Right when I entered University. I, I decided to take the international developments course because I still wasn’t sure what I wanted to do, but I knew I just had this inner nature to help other people. And I saw myself as an environmentalist and was interested in just caring for our earth. And then I didn’t notice that a lot of the things in my lifestyle didn’t line up with those beliefs. So. I think a key point in my life was when I was literally hauling up plastic water bottles up to my dorm room because they didn’t have like filtered water. There would always be this huge flight of stairs up to my room and I’d just haul like these huge, my dad would help me and it was just something I was so used to at home, drinking plastic water, bottles. And then a lot of my friends that I made in my first year were like super environmentalists. And they were like, like, why don’t you just get a Brita filter or something just to reduce your waste. And they would literally like try to hide my plastic water bottles. And then it was just one day that I realized I was like, yeah, that really doesn’t make sense.

And I need to let go of this ego that like, just because I’ve been doing this for, majority of my life doesn’t make it okay, or good for the environment. So I made that switch. I started eating more plant-based started with being pescatarian and eventually became vegan mid university. And yeah, after that, I just was really interested in cooking and started that plant-based journey from there. Posting more on Instagram and sharing my, my journey with other people.

[00:08:50] Jennifer Chua: Can you tell me a little bit of the story of coming up with this idea and then moving it forward into an actual business?

[00:08:56] Monique Chan: So it was actually in the course where I was studying food waste, where we had to think of a service or a business idea that helped to target food waste. And that was the main project of this semester. So as I was thinking of this, I was at the time really interested in cooking. And also working as a line cook. Why not merge those two passions together and create like a snack bar of some sort that utilizes my skill to be innovative with new ingredients, but also helps the social problem of reducing food waste. So I just kind of merged those two together. I didn’t really have any product ideas at the time.

It was literally just a vague idea that I would work on it and would pitch to my teachers at the end of the semester. over some years, like, I started actually doing recipe testing, connecting with local retailers and farmers to get to understand the problem more on an individual level. And then from there grew into what it is today.

[00:09:53] Jennifer Chua: now I spent a period of my life being a line cook as well. So I do understand kind of the relationship that you’d have with waste, but can you explain a little bit more about how that period of working in restaurant kitchens maybe influenced how you see food waste?

[00:10:11] Monique Chan: During my time working in a restaurant, main places that I saw waste being created was, mainly due to no systems being in place. So if I was working on the line and someone ordered no red onions in their meal, and I accidentally added in made a mistake and added red onions, it would be so busy that people would usually just throw that meal out. But I’d be that person just like hoarding all of the mistakes underneath the fridge and being like, oh, I’ll eat that for lunch later. Or I’m like, I’ll, I’ll bring that home. And people would be frustrated. They’d be like, who left this? burrito sitting here from like 9:00 AM. Do you know? So, uh, I saw a lot of food waste happening on the line.

And then also during just prep. I would observe a lot of employees just, I guess not being taught an efficient way of reducing waste. So I remember distinctly like this one guy would always be the guy in charge of cutting the sweet potatoes to prep sweet potato fries. And he would literally get boxes of sweet potatoes, cut around them to make them cube so they fit perfectly in the cutter and throw everything in the garbage bin. Almost half my height, full of just sweet potato sides just because it’s, it was faster doing it, that he was doing this really fast. And I was so tempted to just throw that big bag and haul it home and like make something out of it.

And it was surprising to me because this restaurant specifically, lot of the production for the sauces were done in a different facility. So every day they would pick up, drop off sauces for the day and then the truck would go back empty and they kind of already started giving the middles of onions from onion rings to the truck, so they could use it for soups and things. And I was so surprised that they didn’t implement this in other produce. So it was like the system was in place. There was just a lack of education, a lack of direction and support with reducing waste and something else I noticed too, because I was the one to make sure all the produce came in and, and check everything. I noticed how much things were costing. So a box of sweet potatoes was 40 bucks. If the guy’s cutting her off around half a sweet potato, he’s wasting $20 a box. We get around three to five boxes on average. So, four boxes and I did the calculations that came up to around $14,000 of just waste from sweet potatoes from that one location. I think when a, you make that monetary connection too, if you multiply that by how many restaurants you have, it’s quite a large amount of money being wasted, resources, energy, labor. I think all of that could have been avoided if there’s better systems in place and more education from the beginning for the employees.

So these are a lot of things that just stuck out to me. We even had a juice bar in the front, so there was a lot of opportunity to even just, bring the kale stems to the front, to put in the juice. Different things like that. I think there was just a lack of priority for those kinds of projects. That’s kind of where my frustration, but like where my drive started by just seeing something like happening and no one really doing anything about it. And then really wanting to see a change.

[00:13:29] Jennifer Chua: Are there any other experiences that shaped how you feel about natural living and environmental responsibility? Like, is there an event that shaped how you see the world this way?

[00:13:41] Monique Chan: I think it’s just an accumulation of a lot of different experiences. I think my influence is mostly from seeing other everyday people doing their best to reduce their waste. Cause I think the most powerful way we can combat these issues is to first reflect on ourselves and see what we as individuals can do.

So I was very influenced by my sustainable friends in university who were like eating plant-based and going to all these like climate event talks and plant-based events and, that it was really inspiring in itself because I got to learn more about how this has an impact and what else I can do as an individual to reduce that. So I got more interested in also trying to be more zero waste and, and how our plastic waste has an impact on the environment, uh, and where it goes at the end of the day. So how to minimize that and sharing and the creative process with other people. I loved to host dinner parties and attend parties when I was in university. And it was just a great way to challenge everyone, to make a dish and be able to share it at the end of the day over the table. I think those experiences were just really inspiring and showed me that like, you really don’t have to sacrifice anything like that to, in order to live a sustainable life.

[00:14:55] Jennifer Chua: So I’d like to chat more about what’s going on with our food what’s going on within our current food system. Like, what is it that the general public isn’t really aware of?

[00:15:04] Monique Chan: So it’s quite a tucked under the rug kind of issue. it’s also very, multi-faceted where there’s always waste at different levels of the food system so whether it be on the farms, restaurants like I described and also in grocery stores. So there’s varying levels to it. It’s very, it’s not like a one solution fits all kind of problem.

What I came to discover is that 58% of all food that is produced is either lost or wasted. And with that also comes wasted resources, water, energy, transportation, land, labor, that’s put into that food. So I kind of like to look at it as, an example, like an apple, not just being an apple, being wasted as like the product itself, but also all of the resources that are encapsulated in that apple that allowed it to reach where it was. And for it to just be thrown out at the end of its life cycle is a huge impact on our environment. When you look at all those, factors that create where it is today. So, yeah, it’s a huge problem. I think we see it more in Western countries like Canada and north America in general. And I really believe we have the resources to, to reduce this waste. And it’s just about educating people on why it’s important and how it affects them and what we can do to reduce that.

[00:16:31] Jennifer Chua: 58%. Sounds like a lot. I’m just wondering why do you think that businesses haven’t taken that next step? Like what do you think the barrier is?

[00:16:39] Monique Chan: I think it’s just the lack of education, to be honest, you know, like if you don’t know what you don’t know, like you can’t really do anything about it. And if people aren’t aware, like when I was doing those calculations for the, just the sweet potatoes alone. When people see it in a different form, like in a money value.

I think people will be more receptive to making changes in their businesses, but when they just see it as like a normal, everyday, cost of waste, um, they just think it’s normal and then it’s normalized for everyone. And no one’s really doing anything about it. So I think it all starts with, it’s just rooted in the education. Of people and, and if they don’t know why it’s a problem and how it affects their business and how it can improve their business, if they actually implement something to help reduce waste, then they’re not really going to take that action to, to fix it.

[00:17:31] Jennifer Chua: But then there’s people that come along that are upcycling food waste like yourself and, and there’s products being created like yours at Bruized. How does all of this contribute to food insecurity? Like I know that food insecurity is hugely top of mind for us. A lot of people are really struggling after the last couple of years as well. How do you think that upcyclers can help contribute to alleviating food insecurity or even the climate crisis? Like why is this so important?

[00:17:58] Monique Chan: That’s a tricky question. I, for me, personally, on a business level, I’d love for us to be at a point where we can make our products more accessible. Creating a closed-loop system of reducing food waste, but also being able to give that food back to people, and to share that with a larger audience. But I guess yeah, ways that you can help reduce food insecurity is just, you know, understanding the problem more. I know a lot of more community fridges are opening up. Our local communities it’s open to anyone who needs it. So even making donations there are grocery runs, like getting together with your friends, baking, cooking meals together and sharing it with non-profit organizations I think is definitely a way to start more locally. But yeah, food insecurity is kind of a big one to tackle and I think you really just got to start more locally. And see how you can create that ripple effect. Once you notice what the problem is in your, in your own community,

[00:18:59] Jennifer Chua: And when you begin to look into creating your products, did you find anything surprising?

[00:19:04] Monique Chan: I didn’t really think that we would have access to, uh, as much product as we, we usually get. Usually what we pick up for our supplies is only a percentage of how much is usually thrown out and wasted. So we’re doing our best as a small business, but it was definitely surprising to realize like, wow, It’s definitely more than enough to go around and there’s opportunity for other businesses to take part in using upcycled ingredients and for this to become more of a mainstream supply of ingredients. And something else I noticed too, was just. Also, I mean, it was kind of expected, but not having consistency of certain ingredients and, and being very flexible in how I created products to ensure that we could have them on a consistent basis and not be short on any products.

[00:19:57] Jennifer Chua: And these relationships that you have with grocery and Juicery that are giving you these less than perfect or by-product really. How did that relationship start? Like did you just go into the grocery store and asked to speak to the manager? And I’m just wondering how you managed to get these other businesses on board.

[00:20:16] Monique Chan: It was pretty much like, cold calling and also I think what was more effective for us was actually going into stores and being. Where’s your manager. Like, I want to discuss some things because a lot of people don’t reply to their emails and. I think it was most effective to just talk to people in person and, and show them what we do as a business and what we’re passionate about and how they can be a part of that. lot of businesses, if w if we just make it easy for them, say we’ll pick up everything, we’ll just message you when we’re picking it up, we’ll provide the, buckets or like whatever resources or materials you need. As long as we made it easy for them. willing to do it. And especially if it was something that was just going to be wasted, like, retail stores that had ripe bananas, a lot of the times they just don’t have time to, or any use for those.

They would end up on discount racks. And if it was a large amount, like it usually wouldn’t sell, it would end up being thrown out. So we kind of help them move a lot of their products. So they would have more space to bring in a new produce and supply. So it was like a win-win like they get to, I guess, move product. We pay a discounted price for it as well. It’s just a, it’s a good exchange and they know that they’re helping to reduce their own food waste. So I guess it’s also a personal win for them.

[00:21:34] Jennifer Chua: Something that’s just occurred to me is I follow some of those dumpster diver people on Tik TOK. I don’t know if you’ve seen those. Have you seen these videos?

[00:21:42] Monique Chan: No, I haven’t, I have dumpster-dived in my, in my lifetime. So I do know what it’ll look like.

[00:21:48] Jennifer Chua: Particularly the ones I’m following based in large urban centers. And I think New York city is one of them and they’re going to, think of a really large grocery store and they’re going in the back and they’re finding all of these perfectly good foods that are maybe close to their sell by date, but not expired by any means. Do you have any comments about those kind of systems? Like the sell by dates, the expiry dates. How can we create change there?

[00:22:17] Monique Chan: That’s definitely a tricky one because I know it is, you know, I’m sure there’s a lot of regulations with who food expiry dates and what you’re allowed to say, and it’s just a liability issue. So it is tricky. I think. What we can do on our part is just to educate people that when it says best before, that’s not necessarily like the day it’s going to go all moldy or, or go bad, I think it’s to teach people how to use their senses and use their own judgment to be like, okay, like it says best before this day, but you know, I opened it on this day and like kind of getting an understanding. Smelling it, I think is the first step. And it’s just using your best judgment and not. Kind of using that specific data as a guideline of what to throw out and what not to throw out. I don’t know if there’s a lot we can do about the regulations around necessarily best before dates and expiring dates. Especially if it’s something that’s like yogurt or something that’s cultured.

In terms of dry goods or like crackers or anything like that really. Just use your own judgment, smell it. And if it smells fine, most of the time it’s usually okay. And our bodies are very resilient, so it’ll take a lot to really do some damage. So I think, yeah, just use your best judgment. And, and I think that’s where we can start.

[00:23:35] Jennifer Chua: Are there any other choices that you’ve made with Bruized in order to make sure that your goods are good for the planet as well?

[00:23:41] Monique Chan: One thing specifically that we do is we try to source as locally as possible before we were kind of. When we first started, we were trying to just, source things from big grocery stores because they had so much waste that we actually saw. But then, after, being more in the farmer’s market space, we realized why not use this as an avenue to also support our local farmers, our own community, and like make it a food full circle on a small scale and be able to first target the problems on our local lands versus tackling like these mass production facilities that are imported from the USA.

That’s also an issue, but I think we want to focus more on just being local to start with also just coordinating our pickups to be at farmer’s market. So we vend at farmer’s markets mostly and, For that to be a pickup spot helps to reduce our carbon emissions. Also it’s just easier to communicate with farmers at the farmer’s market because a lot of them are very busy and don’t reply.

So just being able to coordinate with them in person is the best way. And, we also started using, Glass jars when we first started, just so it could be a way to reduce plastic waste. Now we also introduced like a bulk version of our product that we sell at the farmer’s markets. So it’s completely zero waste option. People can bring their containers in, we, we tar them and then just fill up how much they want of our pulp crunch. Even our cookie. I love when customers just bring their own container. Take out containers. It doesn’t have to be fancy like stainless steel ones and they just pick up our products and it’s like complete zero waste transaction. Those are the small things that we try to do too, as a small business to just reduce our waste. Hopefully as we grow, we can, we can make more impact in terms of how much waste we’re reducing in other aspects of our business.

[00:25:32] Jennifer Chua: So when you did start the business, what was your big dream in those days?

[00:25:36] Monique Chan: My dream was to just, I guess, have something that really resonated with other people and, and created impact in other people and something that was unconventional and not seen on the market. So another reason aside from reducing food waste, Why I started Bruized was because I was very interested in natural food and eating healthy and finding food that fuels.

And a lot of times I would browse, especially the granola section. And most of them would look healthy, like have all this beautiful, eco- packaging. And when you look at the ingredients which is like number one thing you should do when you pick up any product, because at the end of the day, ingredients don’t lie. You would just see a lot of these products are filled with cheap ingredients, fillers, sugars, oils, and nothing really that is fueling for your body. So I really wanted to first start off by making a granola that I could eat every day and feel good after eating it. That’s where I came up with pulp crunch because I also was into juicing.

I had all this juice pulp leftover and I was like, wow, this is a great like base full of fiber. There’s so many nutrients still intact in that fiber. Why not use it instead of throwing it out? So I think that’s another reason that drove my passion for starting Bruized. Create products that were unconventional, helping to tackle food waste, but also tasted good at the end of the day. And weren’t just the gluten-free option or the vegan option, but was the good option. Genuinely people liked and we’ve gotten so much good feedback. Sometimes people don’t even realize that it’s vegan or gluten-free and they usually just surprised or let alone made with stuff that would have just been composted.

That was my big dream and I think we’ve reached a point where we, we have reached, I see the vision, you know, playing out and I still see a bigger future where Bruized can grow nationally, even internationally and start growing its own little hubs locally. That’s another way for us to be more sustainable too, is just keeping Bruized as not a one location, distribution kind of center where we shipped from Toronto all the way to Vancouver. But starting our own Bruized community in Vancouver, in Montreal. And making it more of a local collaboration and collective where people can get together, learn more about food waste. We share good food and have more discussion on how we can make a difference. That’s my big dream. And I’m putting it out there into the universe right now.

[00:28:07] Jennifer Chua: So, what was the first thing that you were proud of though? Like, what is the first thing you were proud of in this business and why did it fill your heart so much that you made change?

[00:28:17] Monique Chan: I don’t know if it was just one thing, but I guess it was just the general response that we got when we first started selling at farmers markets. I think a lot of business owners can relate to this, but having that first sale is like, it kind of just doing your happy dance behind the table and they’re like leaving. I think that just gave a lot of validation that like, yeah, people like this product and they’re willing to pay money for it and support it. I think a lot of that was rooted from us giving out our product very generously, we always were all about sampling because it’s a new industry, a new product, something that they haven’t seen on the shelves before.

We were very generous with always giving samples, always talking about the product and how it benefited our planet and your, your health. And, I think at the end of the day, we also want the product to speak for itself. So we were very generous with samples. And I think to see that response from people and support over the years, has been so fulfilling and that’s truly what brings joy to me in my everyday work.

[00:29:18] Jennifer Chua: and building this business and where you’ve gotten so far, has anything just been like, I can’t believe this worked out this way.

[00:29:26] Monique Chan: Yeah, I guess, I think a lot of times, I haven’t really put a lot of action. I’m going to be honest and to seeking out press or any sort of media coverage, I’ve just been focused on like the everyday grind and any podcasts that we’ve been on or any like interview or grant that we’ve been featured in. Or panel. Literally everyone has just reached out to, to us. And I was just so shocked at how people found us and how they were interested in what we were doing. Even just being here. I was like, wow, this is amazing. Like, people want to know more about what we’re doing and want to be a part of it. And I think that’s, that was the craziest thing to me. I was like, wow, I really don’t even need someone to do PR for me, I’m literally just getting all the emails myself. So yeah, that was a huge shock for me. I’m always happy to, to be a part of other people’s own journeys and storytelling and sharing what we do at Bruized.

[00:30:22] Jennifer Chua: Have there been any moments though that you felt like maybe the odds were stacked against you?

[00:30:26] Monique Chan: I guess usually on like my stuck days where I’m trying to figure out things and, you know, being a small business and doing the roles that I’m usually not that great at. There have been those days and at the end of the day, it’s about taking it all in, not, not valuing the wins more than the lows and like just continuing to move and just going . I think at the end of the day, whatever problem it is, like it’s temporary, we’re going to find a solution and that’s usually how I get through it. We’re going to work it out. We already got here so far, so, nothing’s can really stop us so.

[00:31:08] Jennifer Chua: So if you’ve inspired someone to start their own food waste, upcycling business, is there a common reason that they might give up or walk away?

[00:31:17] Monique Chan: Yeah, I mean, thinking about when we first started, the main barrier for me was just finding consistent supply of things, because this is a very new idea where there isn’t much demand for imperfect ingredients or byproducts that weren’t even seen as ingredients like juice pulp. A lot of people it’s like creating your own system. So I had to really build my own way of sourcing things. And it was really difficult just to find a consistent supplier of ingredients that we used and to also build products around that. It’s very easy to just. order whatever you want. If you already have a product that you’ve developed. But for our business plan, it’s kind of the opposite where we want to help reduce food waste, and we want to actually make an impact.

So understanding how food waste plays a part in different organizations. So using byproducts that are usually discarded specific to those companies is what our business is surrounded by. So. It’s hard when it’s something that you’ve created yourself. And that could be a huge barrier that is discouraging. But I would just recommend keep going. Usually how all new things start. There’s always going to be that friction in the beginning and something that I found helpful to overcome that is just to always have a backup plan. We have like a very long list of suppliers. So you know, that we always can rely on getting the ingrediants that we need, the volumes that we need, because we have different resources and people to source it from. So yeah, I think that could be a huge barrier, but it’s not impossible we’re doing it and you can do it too.

[00:33:00] Jennifer Chua: So how can we avoid food waste? Maybe not in our business, but maybe at home, is there anything that I should be mindful of when I’m looking towards those vegetables that are in the back of my fridge.

[00:33:10] Monique Chan: The first thing I always tell anyone who’s trying to reduce waste at home is to just first. Look inside your garbage or your compost or whatever your waste disposal unit is at home. Take a look at that because that is literally a mirror of what you need to work on. Right? So if you see, like different scraps in the compost, carrot ends, onion, skins, kale stems, maybe looking up different ways to reuse those ingredients.

So whether that be making a, my go-to is just a big pot of veggie stock, you freeze those ingredients anytime you’re prepping your meals. Put them in a bag in a freezer and then just keep filling it up until it’s full. And once it’s full, you take one day to make a big pot of stock. You strain it and then you can make soup, you can freeze the stock to use for future meals. And it’s just a great way to get those extra last bit of nutrients from that produce that you’re paying for. Another way that I like to reduce waste is also to make Grocery lists before I go to the grocery store. I’m trying to improve on that.

I’m not perfect. Sometimes I forget, and I go a little crazy with buying things, but I think that having that structure before you buy your food too, is very helpful. So you don’t buy things unnecessarily or buy things in large amounts. A lot of times I think people have excess because they think they’re getting a deal by buying that big mega family pack when their a family of one or two. And after that, going by the expiry date, they end up throwing away half of it. So they’re not actually saving that money. So I think being aware of like the marketing tricks that are out there and, and realizing that buying what you need and doing more runs to the grocery store is probably better than buying everything in a larger amount. And then letting it sit in your fridge, uh, until it’s gone bad until you forget about it. Buying what you need and, and using it and getting innovative with how you use those ingredients is your first step for anyone just trying to reduce waste at home.

[00:35:15] Jennifer Chua: And what about the future? How do you think what you’re doing now is impacting us or the people around you? How hopeful are you for the future?

[00:35:25] Monique Chan: I’m a very hopeful person. I really do believe like we are early to this type of market for imperfect ingredients. And. I want people to just jump on this and to realize that, oh, if we’re doing it as a small business, there’s so much potential that this can be incorporated into every business on a different level. I really believe like the future holds just the idea of renewing and, and reducing waste because we’re already low on resources even with COVID there’s been food shortages, global warming, climate change. A lot of this is affecting our food supply and we need to just be more mindful of how we’re using the food that’s already being produced versus trying to find ways to create more food, to supply the growing population.

I think the future is going to be all about renewing what we have, finding more sustainable ways to go about, our systems, especially within food. And I hope to be the company that is the leading example for that. And I’d love to be able to connect with other businesses that are interested too, and be able to share anything I can offer to help support them in that transition.

I think we can’t do this alone and real really need to start building our relationships with the people around us and together we each have something to offer and we can put together a solution to help tackle these huge global issues. So it’s all started in ourselves, but also in the collective and collaborative minds of our community.

[00:37:02] Jennifer Chua: Are there any other ways that you affect social change with this business?

[00:37:06] Monique Chan: We are a women of color business and we want to try to be as inclusive as possible as we grow. So, you know, being able to hire more marginalized people to join our team. And also once we were at the stage to be able to donate to more organizations that are making an impact Socially. So we can be able to play a part as a business as we grow and, to support other . Organizations that are . Doing good for that.

I think for our business too, what we hope to offer in a few years is just to be able to expand our line of products. And to also, like I mentioned, be more accessible and where we offer our products so that more people can take part in our mission to reduce food waste and also get that inspiration of why food waste is important and what they can do to help alleviate that. Stay tuned for another upgrade to our range of products and what we can offer to our committee.

We’re in the process of just sorting out the business and having a little restart, just with COVID that really just. What we want to focus on is really just growing our business, making our production more efficient, being able to grow our team. So it’s literally not just two women running this, but having other people that are passionate about food waste to join us. and partake in that. What we’re just focused on is how can we scale this idea and how can we make it also accessible to people?

[00:38:34] Jennifer Chua: If you want to learn more about Monique and how she’s embracing imperfect to make feel good food for the planet and the people around us or order some of her delicious pulp crunch visit bruized.com bruised with a Z. You can follow along with Monique on her mission to upcycle imperfect produce into wholesome eats on Instagram at @ bruizedco

Lindsey Laurain from ezpz turned the toddler feeding space upside down with a tip-proof all-in-one placemat and plate that suctions to the surface. In this episode, we learn how she’s created a mission-driven company that leads with innovation and input from pediatric experts, how an onslaught of copies and counterfeits of her products almost derailed her focus, how defending her intellectual property almost killed her business, and how she’s built a value-based business by focusing on the tiniest of bottom lines – meeting the developmental milestones of her customers.

If you want to learn more about Lindsey and her developmentally-focused products that make mealtime less about mess and more about fun visit ezpzfun.com. Have a little one in the home? The ezpz blog has a tonne of tips and strategies to help little one meet mealtime milestones. You can follow along with Lindsey on her mission to revolutionize how we feed children on Facebook or Instagram at ezpzfun

Links from this episode

• Cost Of Goods Sold e04 An Introduction: Rebuilding a Purposeful Business Based on Values with Hip Mommies’ Jennifer Myers Chua
• The video that started it all: Introduction to ezpz Happy Mat
• Fake baby products are everywhere—here’s how to spot the difference in Today’s Parent.
• Beware: Dangerous Counterfeit Toys for Your Baby Are Being Sold on Amazon. Inc Magazine
• Ezpz’s Rebuy Program, Relove & Recycling Program in Canada

Episode Transcript

 

[00:02:12] Jennifer Chua: It took me over 20 episodes to make this one. And I think it’s fair to say that this is the episode that you should listen to if you have a product-based business. Particularly if you’re in the impact business base or a mission-driven, but this is definitely the episode to share. If you know, anyone who is starting or building a brand.

Because starting a business is exhilarating. It’s coming up with the idea and the design and building a team. Producing something, launching, even marketing. And this is what you’ll learn from any entrepreneur’s story about building something. But not every founder is willing to tell you what you were really going to need to know.

Back in episode four, I spoke about my introduction to this world and what I had learned about the big businesses built on copying products designed by independent creators with small startups. The astonishing breadth of the counterfeit industry and the speed that it moves. And how online marketplaces and sellers are creating turmoil for small businesses and really just the realities of launching a product.

In this digital world, everything can move at the speed of light except maybe the patent office. And along with Lindsay, I also had a very, very, very uncomfortable introduction to the world of patent law, legal teams. We’ll go into all of that in, in a bit.

[00:03:34] Jennifer Myers Chua: But what we also go into in this episode, These are the things that I guarantee you’re not thinking about when you’re starting a small business. We talk about how naive we both were. How hard it was to deal with the onslaught of counterfeits and seeing our kids used in the listings for the fakes.

How Lindsay and I, if I’m being honest, found herself in a very dark and unproductive place, trying to fight them off. We also learn how she spends her energy now and what she learned to focus on in order to go forward.

And also in episode four, I told the story of how I came to find Lindsay and ezpz, which is pretty remarkable. All the way back then in 2014, we partnered and have really gone on this journey. Building two successful businesses in tandem this whole time. And if you haven’t heard that episode, go back and listen, if you want to hear more of this backstory, because we’re not going to get into that here. But it took me until now a year into this project. To figure out how to tell this story, what the most useful parts of Lindsey’s story would be to someone developing products.

And after years now of walking the trade show aisles and browsing the web, meeting the buyers and seeing everything that’s come out in the children’s product space. I can say that there really isn’t another mission-driven company like ezpz. Integrity is such a big part of ezpz that Lindsey is famously known for turning down $1 million from two different sharks in the tank because of a gut feeling or a values misalignment.

And Lindsey never thought she’d be an entrepreneur. She was following the typical path and was settled into a career in corporate America. She didn’t have dreams of starting her own business, but what she did have was toddlers. Three of them. Lindsay’s all the son was three and her twins were two. And anyone who has been through mealtime with kids this age knows what a mess it can be. Chaos is the word that Lindsay uses when she remembers this time. Over dinner, one evening after cleaning up multiple tipped-over balls and spilled food. Lindsay’s husband Brad threw up his hands and said there has gotta be a better way. We have to create something that these kids can’t tip and toss.

[00:05:44] Lindsey Laurain: Nothing really existed in terms of a placemat in plate combination. There were suction cups, plastic bowls, but they all didn’t work and were terrible. And so really quickly, I honestly, the next day I got home and I taped a bowl to a piece of paper and I was like, I’m starting a company and creating a product. If anyone can do it, I can do it. And my personality is very all or nothing. I always say it’s a blessing and a curse. And I never looked back. And so I taped that bowl to a piece of paper. And then that was really the start of the journey back in 2014.

[00:06:16] Jennifer Myers Chua: Lindsey went to Google and began searching for potential materials for information on how to start a company. She picked up an inventor’s handbook and was spending her evenings looking at supplies, requirements and thinking about building a team. Before Lindsay had anything in development, She had this idea in her head that she wanted to create a really special company culture. She wanted the team she would build to enjoy the work. She wanted them to form tight bonds. Be close friends, as well as collaborators.

And only two weeks after the mealtime mess led Lindsay to think about creating a product. She reached out to her two best friends from middle school. Both were on maternity leave at the time and both agreed to help Lindsay start this business. Neither returned to their full-time jobs. Lindsey hired a creative lead and a speech-language pathologist and feeding therapist. And now seven years later, this team is still together. Having all been there since the beginning.

[00:07:12] Lindsey Laurain: I realized that I wanted to work with people I loved. If you enjoy the people you work with, it really doesn’t feel like work. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing. If it’s work you love, if you don’t like, if you love the people you work with and the energy, it, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing. And so at the very initial onset of ezpz, I was like, if I create a company, I want to have a great company culture and I want to work with my best friends.

[00:07:38] Jennifer Myers Chua: I asked Lindsay, what qualities she thinks that she has, that has led her to build such a successful company. She said that she’s always been competitive and driven and determined and passionate and positive. All traits that lend well to entrepreneurship. But beyond that, she’s honest, optimistic, a dreamer, a big thinker. And determined to use her life to create positive change.

[00:08:00] Lindsey Laurain: When I started, I was researching all of the materials available and just realized I fell in love with silicone really early on because it’s high quality, it’s built to last, so it doesn’t fade or deteriorate, it’s sustainable. You can literally pass it on to kids. And it’s safe, it’s inert and so mould or fungus doesn’t grow on it and you can put it in high temperatures and cold temperatures and it’s flexible. I just, I love silicone as a material. And so it was very important at the beginning to make products that were high quality and safe.

But then I realized really early on that unfortunately, not a lot of other companies do this I mean, they don’t pay attention to, whether, it’s the material, you know, there’s so much plastic out there, or just the design, the actual design and aesthetic people weren’t paying as much attention to. I knew there had to be a better way and it’s been a mission really, since we started off creating high-quality innovative products for kiddos.

[00:09:02] Jennifer Myers Chua: I assume a lot of this really developed after you met miss Dawn, but do you remember was it meeting Dawn that helped you become interested in developmental milestones and feeding or, or what is the moment that stands out in your mind?

[00:09:16] Lindsey Laurain: So Dawn is a speech language pathologist who has 25 plus years experience dealing with kiddos with all sorts of disabilities. So, a kiddo with autism or down syndrome or cerebral palsy. And so Dawn actually reached out to ezpz. We launched on Kickstarter. And at that time we just had the happy mat. So we had created the happy mat. Our mission is making safe products, but also at that time, it’s like less mess -more fun. I’m a mom of three boys. How can I simplify my life? Make a product that the kids aren’t going to toss and throw the bowl I can take the mat to the sink. It just is all about making life easier for mom and dad. So Dawn reaches out to us when we’re on Kickstarter. And at that time had said, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I duct tape bowls to the table right now. This mat is going to change so many people’s lives. And I had no idea. Again, we created the mat because of our three messy neuro-typical boys.

And so getting that feedback early on, that the mats and the way they suctioned function or self seal to the table can have this benefit. Kiddos with cerebral palsy are eating for the first time. I mean life-changing effects not only for these kids, but for me a creator. I mean, to be able to touch people’s lives in that way. And the messages we got from parents about changing kids’ life. I mean, it was, and, you know, cause you were part of the journey at the beginning. It was so heartwarming and something I didn’t anticipate with ezpz. So at the beginning, again, that was more about making a difference in people’s lives.

How can we create a safer environment and these kiddos that have never been independent eaters now are able to eat somewhat independently. That was huge. Then quickly realizing when you start your company. Or when I started my company or anyone starts a company, you start to learn about the industry and how products are created.

And I realized very early on that people don’t focus on the design aspects of products. So I assumed as a mom, if you go into a store or if you’re shopping online, everyone has a speech language pathologist on their team. That’s developing products for kids in the feeding area. And I assumed, right? If you’re going into a store, like everyone’s thought about the size of the spoon head and how the cup size should be the perfect size for an infant. And I quickly realized that does not happen. No one’s paying attention, right? The spoons being sold at your big box store, that you go, or your grocery store. If you look at a spoon head, it’s huge and it’s being marketed towards six month olds. And so really quickly. And again, Dawn’s influence right note saying this isn’t appropriate. I quickly realized. Like this doesn’t exist and we deserve better. Parents deserve better. Kiddos deserve better. Like we need to be creating and giving tools to kiddos and families that can help these kids reach developmental milestones and be the appropriate size. It’s almost like you’re setting people up for failure, right? When you’re not paying attention to these designs. And no one is everyone just cares about making money, producing the cheapest thing, the most quantity you can sell and how much can you make? And so Dawn was a huge driver in that, but then also being a mom. And just realizing that this isn’t part of the normal design process for companies.

And again, there, there has to be a better way. So then switching our mission really from like less mess and let’s make people’s lives easier to, how can we make better products that are developmentally appropriate and really tailored for specific age ranges. And so it’s all about, I mean, it’s our whole mission of our company. Creating these innovative products to reach very specific developmental milestones.

[00:13:13] Jennifer Myers Chua: I’ve had the unique opportunity of learning more about your process and watching you launch new products over years now.

And I’ve learned to look at products in the store in a very different way because of your influence. Thank you. But could you tell me about the day that you realized that conventional feeding products may be less than ideal? Or why does the design of something like a spoon and that bowl size? Why does that really matter?

[00:13:38] Lindsey Laurain: Going back to being a mom and my assumption before I started ezpz that every product that is created is so thoughtfully designed and is tailored for what it’s marketing for. And so for feeding specifically, there are so many developmental milestones from a feeding and speech standpoint.

So I’m going to give you just a few. So from a feeding perspective, It’s a developmental milestone that kids can learn how to drink from an open cup. So you can’t see me but I’m bringing my hand to my mouth. Like you would drink from an open cup. That’s a developmental milestone.

Learning how to scoop with the spoon is a developmental milestone for young kids. Learning how to Pierce is a developmental milestone with a fork. Kids learn how to Pierce. Picking up stuff is a developmental milestone. And so you have all these developmental milestones that kids should be making, right? It’s just the natural progression as kids grow. And the tools that are available they’re not created to achieve those developmental milestones. So right. You have a huge spoon head. You have a long spoon handle and you give it to a kid. They can’t scoop with that and dip with that and Pierce with that. And so we realized just how important it is to create these tools. So kids and adults, the adults can give the kids the tools to meet these milestones from a feeding and a speech standpoint.

So another example is the sippy cup. With our boys, I was taught to go off the bottle and get your kids on a sippy cup. That’s literally what the pediatrician told me, you know, at your 12 months, you get off the bottle and you’ve gone to a sippy cup. After meeting Dawn I quickly realized that’s not the proper recommendation. And again, you’re probably thinking, well, that’s from a pediatrician. But these pediatricians they’re general health practitioners, right? They’re not feeding experts. They’re not swallowing experts. Their scope of knowledge is very general.

So I think once you start meeting with speech language pathologists and other therapists, you realize that no people hate sippy cups. Again, sippy cups were developed because of a convenience. I’m totally all for convenience, but it became the norm. You give a kid, a sippy cup, they can walk around and drink it great they’re not spilling it. That’s awesome. Then you realize like, this is not good from a speech standpoint. You’re going from a bottle to a sippy cup. They’re not using their mouth in different ways. There is an opportunity here for open mouth or open cup drinking. The tiny cup, right. And you’re using just different parts of your mouth or the babies mouth. Versus a sippy cup. And the parts of the mouth that are being used drinking from an open cup help with speech. And so you’re working on different vowels and consonants, all this stuff that I had no idea I never even thought about. I just, I didn’t. And so I, now it gets me so excited thinking about like having a product for all of these developmental milestones.

We’ve made the tiny line now for first feeder, so right. Four to six months we’ve got the tiny cup and the tiny spoon and the tiny bowl. Now, then we have the mini line, which is advancing to nine to 12 months olds, but now we’re looking at products that are for pre feeding. And so how can we again give the right tools to set up these kids for success?

[00:16:59] Jennifer Myers Chua: And I think the last time that I had a sippy cup in this house, it’s been a couple of years now. But at that time, we were also going through this thing in the industry where people were finding mold in the little crevices of sippy cups and those water bottles that were plastic. And I’ve noticed that your products tailored to this age group are a hundred percent silicone. And I’d like to talk a little bit more about why you’ve chosen silicone in terms of health and safety, and then also the environmental impact of silicone. Can you give me some insight into your silicone obsession and why you chose silicone?

[00:17:38] Lindsey Laurain: I am a huge fan of silicone I will say this what, before I even started ezpz and we were looking at materials. I mean, you think about silicone breast implants, right? People have been implanting silicone into themselves for years. I mean, just from a safety perspective, like logically, okay. That’s like a safe material. This is again, seven years ago when I started researching. And then once I started researching all the different materials available, I just, again, fell in love with silicone because it’s safe. Very high quality. We still have the happy mats we used when the boys were two eating, and the bowls and they don’t fade, they don’t deteriorate. A product that you buy is going to look the same for years. So it is sustainable and it’s high quality. And it’s inert. So it’s also resistant to high temperatures and low temperatures. So you can heat the silicone. you can also freeze it.

And then it’s also flexible. So from an eating perspective, we like kids using utensils in the sensory aspects with the silicone. It’s a great sensory aspect. So if you’re using this, those utensils or the cup, but also when you use the mats and you’re just using your hand on the mats there’s a good sensory aspect. But then the flexibility of the material allows a kid to what we call raking. So you can like grab the food out and the mat will kind of flex the bowl part of the mat. And we do a lot of quality testing on a yearly basis. So that that’s really why we chose silicone? We’re now starting to get into other materials and look at other materials. And so, but that’s kind of the next evolution of ezpz

[00:19:16] Jennifer Myers Chua: And I think that a lot of people as consumers don’t understand the difference between consumer product safety and developmental appropriateness. So we automatically assume that if something has come into our country, especially legally. So if something has come into our country, it has been tested to be safe.

We all know that there is some sort of regulatory body making sure things are quote, safe, unsafe, but I think what people are not thinking in terms, especially of baby products, if a child is using something that is not appropriately designed for them and the stage they’re in, it can lead to problems later. So the safety isn’t maybe immediate that they’re not choking or whatnot , but that these decisions have long-term benefits for the children or the people buying the products in the future.

[00:20:01] Lindsey Laurain: Totally. I mean, I just had no idea . Our tiny cup, like designing something and getting kids off of a sippy club, it’s going to help with speech development. I mean, it’s so much more even than just like feeding. There’s a speech development. And then just what, what are the normal developmental milestones for feeding? Right? I definitely didn’t know that much as a parent, outside of going to the pediatrician and saying like, your kids should be able to pinch the Cheerio. That’s like the one I remember.

We want to improve our messaging and giving parents the tools to understand how each product is tailored. Especially as we develop out the feeding line up until older kids. and some of that innovation. But absolutely not. I mean, I think there’s a safety component, which again, there are regulations in place, but lots of people don’t follow them or they’re not really you know, you can still sell products getting by those regulations.

Unfortunately. I mean, I tell this all the time. On Amazon it’s the wild, wild west. It’s really important to buy from companies that you can trust. Just because they’re being sold on Amazon or quite frankly in a store doesn’t mean they’re necessarily doing all the quality testing. And So we spend a great deal of not only money, but resources on quality and compliance testing from a product safety standpoint. And also our manufacturer goes through quality audits as well. And then yeah, the design process absolutely is super

[00:21:26] Jennifer Myers Chua: So when you began to look at conventional children’s products was there anything else that surprised you about the industry as a whole?

[00:21:32] Lindsey Laurain: So when we started seven years ago, there wasn’t a lot of just stylish baby goods. So everything was more primary colors, reds, bright reds, yellow, blues. No gray, not a lot of pastels, not a lot of like beautiful design. And so at the beginning, that was surprising to me, I think just not as much focus on like aesthetics and aesthetically pleasing products for children. Now, seven years later, there are so many pastels and so many grays. But at the time there was just like lack of innovation and design aesthetics at that time.

And I realized that the industry was just very antiquated. The heads of these bigger companies were people that have been doing this for a lot of years. They’re not following all those style and the latest colors and all of that. So more of an industry that needed some innovation, young energy. So I think my advice to anyone listening too. There is opportunity for companies to be created and innovative products to be made. So I think that was a surprise at the beginning, just like the lack of innovation. And then I think the counterfeits and the copies and all of that. Absolutely. I just, I was naive. And I’m sure lots of people that have been in industries knew those problems existed, but I was naive to all of those problems.

[00:22:51] Jennifer Myers Chua: And Your products are manufactured responsibly, and you have a really unique relationship with your manufacturing partners. I will never forget that you brought your manufacturing partners to the world industry trade show, which surprised everybody. Transparency. What does it mean to manufacture responsibly? Or what does that look like? And how can you be sure that the people making your goods are being treated well?

[00:23:16] Lindsey Laurain: I think, gosh, that question and having an answer is now more important than ever. Like the fast fashion, the craze in the manufacturing facilities, in some of these industries that are just like horrific, not only the quality of the facilities, but how they treat their workers And so our manufacturer we’ve been with the same manufacturer since we launched ezpz. So over seven years which I think is very unique and I found them through a referral. I didn’t just find them randomly online. I got a referral which was really nice at the beginning, looking for manufacturers. And then we have absolutely created, a family relationship, like, like you said, you met them.

They used to come to, when we had in person trade shows, they’ve come to a lot of trade shows with us. So they came to Vegas to the ABC kids expo, and then every year in Germany, they meet us in Germany every year for Kind & Jugen, and hang out at our booth with us and meet, our international partners. And so, I’ve been over to the factory. Other folks on the team have been over to the factory to make sure that they’re manufacturing to our standards. And then in addition to just me feeling good about them, right. And having a great relationship that we absolutely trust each other we also go through or they go through quality audits.

And so, there’s a few different types of quality and compliance audits you can do on a manufacturer. And not only do we have audits that make sure the manufacturing facilities are safe and, high standards there, there’s also like social compliance audits that are making sure they’re taking care of their employees. And so the manufacturer again, has to provide all of that information to the third-party audit. So we do our best. And I feel so grateful and fortunate to have such a wonderful partner. That’s really grown with us over the last seven years. So it’s been fun. And two of them have had babies. And then it’s fun seeing their kids use ezpz products. We’re very grateful.

[00:25:18] Jennifer Myers Chua: And I think in terms of consumer behavior, when people want to make sure that they’re supporting a company that is manufacturing ethically, one of the things that people automatically gravitate towards is looking for north American made products. But I think that a lot of people don’t understand that manufacturing overseas can be responsible, but also the challenges of producing something like a silicone product in the United States, how that can be hugely significant, those challenges. Can you speak a little bit towards why you chose China and why you were comfortable with that decision?

[00:25:53] Lindsey Laurain: When we started and we’ve explored us manufacturers, continuously throughout the last seven years, I wanted to make this in the United States. And thought that would be a great idea. Quickly realizing that just the cost of raw material is so much more expensive in the United States, silicone specifically you know, our happy mat, right? It’s a retail price point of 24 99. That’s expensive. And the cost of goods are very expensive behind that. And it’s a lot of silicone we’ve trimmed it down a little bit, but when we launched it was a pound and a half of silicone. And so, I very quickly realized just the price of raw materials and labor. It was going to be cost prohibitive to start in the United States. Since we’ve evolved and made smaller products, such as the tiny cup there’s more of a possibility that we could be sourcing some of these products from the United States. But then it just goes to supply chain issues And figuring out how to do all of that logistically. So it’s never worked out, but I’m not saying that eventually we wouldn’t love to have a backup manufacturer producing at least some of our units in the United States.

[00:27:04] Jennifer Myers Chua: And are there any other ways that your products help families reduce waste? Like I’m immediately thinking of the lids to help food spoilage, but are there any other ways that your products help reduce waste?

[00:27:15] Lindsey Laurain: I think I would say our products versus any product, but like getting rid of disposable, right? Paper products. And plastic products. I think that alone, but then the fact that the products are so high quality and don’t fade or deteriorate over their life that you can really not only keep and reuse these products, but then pass them down to future kiddos. And so hopefully you’re buying less products, right? You only need a few mats and a few cups and those products will last they’re built to last really. And so, hopefully that that reduces waste. And then to your point we’re very excited about the new lids. So if you have a meal and your kiddo, didn’t finish it. You can put a lid on it and put it in the fridge to reuse that.

[00:28:02] Jennifer Myers Chua: We have an ezpz recycling program actually in Canada through Hip Mommies. So we are taking back some of the ezpz products who have managed to hit the end of their life cycle, and we do recycle those properly with Terra cycle. Also really interesting to note that a silicone can be recycled and it looks like trending that it will be something that will be repurposed and recycling, more conventionally going forward, which is really good news.

[00:28:30] Lindsey Laurain: Yes, that’s awesome. We love you.

[00:28:34] Jennifer Myers Chua: Something that we have gone through together a lot over the last couple of years is learning about the counterfeit industry. And personally, I’ve been mostly surprised about what kind of products are counterfeited especially children’s products. When I thought counterfeits before I thought of things like handbags being sold out of the back of cars and had no idea, just the breadth of the counterfeit industry.

If I’m a regular customer and I’m a consumer in a store and I’m looking for something for my child, and I see two things that look the same, but one might be more affordable in one case. Why do I need to be concerned about counterfeit children’s products? What’s the issue with counterfeits?

[00:29:17] Lindsey Laurain: To your point. I just, I had no idea kind of the counterfeit and copy worlds that existed. I absolutely thought that, you see the handbags and that those types of products and when we started ezpz, I’ll never forget, you know, people saying like, oh, people are going to copy this. And I swear to God, I believed this. I said, I’m a mom. No, one’s going to copy me. No one I’m a mom. Like, I don’t know why I thought being a mom gave me super powers, but just I was just so naive that people would copy. And that quickly, I quickly quickly learned. I mean, we had copies so quick with ezpz. There’s a lot of copies and counterfeits. With ezpz and our mats, because the technology was so novel and new, it was out of control. The copies and counterfeits. Back in 2015 and 16, it was so overwhelming and terrible. I hated that time. Because almost every day, I mean, it was like daily. It was just everyday, every week. Images of people sending mats whether it’s on Alibaba or Amazon, and not only terrible to see your product, being copied, but our kids being used in the photos was the worst part for me at the beginning. And it was worse actually for me, seeing other kids being used. So, right. It sucked when Chase and Drew and Brody were on everything at the beginning. But then as we started using other people’s kids for photos, right? Like, so Edie and Christie’s daughter and Tammy’s and you see those photos being, placed all over, I just felt really responsible and terrible. It was just a terrible feeling.

There was a very emotional component of that. It was just really emotionally wearing on me. It was very negative, you know, and trying to deal with that and find a legal team and lawyers in a team to be able to manage this was a huge part of our business back in really 2016 and 2017. I kind of had to take away my focus from innovation and growing the company to how do we protect this company, right? I mean, how do we protect what we’ve built and make sure consumers are aware of what’s going on? It was not only a big part of hiring lawyers and enforcement team and all of that, but then messaging to consumers.

So to go back to the consumer piece, I mean, I just had no idea that counterfeits and copies were all over Amazon. And so we spent, we don’t message as much about it. But at that time, I mean, it was a big part of our messaging how to buy safe products, pay attention to where you’re buying from. I would say now I’m a very educated consumer because of what I do, but I still have a lot of trouble identifying copies and counterfeits when I’m shopping for Amazon. I’m not a big online shopper. So you know, my advice to anyone, whether you’re buying a kid’s product or any product for that matter is to just pay attention.

 It’s very easy to tell once you start looking for kind of clues of fake products but there’s some really good copyists that we’ve gotten packages that look just like ours and unless it’s, there’s like two words that are misspelled, we would have never known. Right. I mean, it’s kind of crazy. It has been part of the learning process, and now I’m much more equipped from an emotional standpoint to handle it. And from a legal standpoint and we filed a lot of intellectual property. So again, that was a pretty long answer.

[00:32:48] Jennifer Myers Chua: And I think when I went through this with you, I was completely shocked to understand the counterfeit industry. Like I really thought people were just copying products to make a quick buck. I didn’t realize how large it is, like $300 billion a year or whatnot. I didn’t realize what products even sunscreens and toothpastes are being counterfeited.

And I didn’t realize that counterfeiting, the industry is funding things like organized crime and that they’re using child labor and that the materials may not be sufficient. They’ve definitely not done safety testing because as you’ve mentioned, safety testing is super expensive. And I didn’t realize that these things could actually be dangerous. In my mind, I’m just thinking, oh, this handbag will end up falling apart. Maybe the quality isn’t as nice. I didn’t realize that that there’s potentially toxic chemicals on these products. There is concerns for our health and safety if we purchase these. And I think that for me was incredibly surprising.

[00:33:54] Lindsey Laurain: Absolutely. I think I mean, going back to safety is, should be any company’s priority, but they are making not safe products. And so when we were going through all of this, I started buying products and I was trying to get them quality tested to find out. And then eventually I’m like, what the hell am I doing?

I’m spending all of my energy. And like, what kind of good does that do? I mean, I want to tell everyone, right. I was so passionate about, like, everyone needs to know this. There’s so many copies and they’re not safe and they’re going to fail. And then that’s not just the best use of my resources. Right. I mean, I was spending every minute trying to like. Again, looking at all these products and order them and send into factories and tell Amazon that they’re being sold without the proper labeling. And then versus more turning internally and saying, we can only focus on us. Of course, it’s important to message this to consumers. I mean, now there’s much more messaging about this, but and how can we make sure we’re making the safe products, passing all our quality tests, and focusing internally right on the high quality products is, is the only thing we can do. But it’s disturbing. And hopefully, as more awareness comes about this problem, like there will be more quality testing requirements. I will say Amazon is starting to do more quality testing.

That was a big one of my issues and I went to the white house and talked about like an anti-counterfeiting. I was at a round table at the white house and Amazon was there and we talked about the quality testing the requirements that they did. And over the years, I will say they are starting to implement more quality testing. But up until this last year, it’s been really the wild, wild west from a quality standpoint. And you can sell anything online, you know, pretty easily

[00:35:36] Jennifer Myers Chua: And so if you’ve made it past the counterfeits, you’re not shopping on Alibaba, Ali express, where you expect that 99% of things are counterfeits. You’ve made it past Amazon. You mentioned copies before, and I assume that by that you mean a already established business that is replicating your product.

And I know the ezpz has gone through a lot in terms of patents, but do you want to talk a little bit about your experience about copying? Because I think that, again, this is something that definitely a consumer wouldn’t know, but if someone is looking at getting into a product based business, I think this could be useful for them as well. What’s the deal with copies?

[00:36:17] Lindsey Laurain: We’ve had every kind of copy and counterfeit available, but probably one of the hardest for us from just a like, “taking away market share and products” is when a big baby company or another big company copies you. So I’ll say, the folks that are selling on Alibaba and quite frankly, some on Amazon, those companies, right?

They’re not brands. They are just a product that someone’s trying to sell to make a quick buck. But when you have an established company. So you can think of every industry has established companies, right. That are the leaders of the industry. When you have an established company, copy you, or, my fellow mom, entrepreneurs, or dad, entrepreneurs, whoever, and they copy the product.

It’s more impactful in a negative way because these big companies have distribution already set up in place. When you’re starting your business, right, we didn’t have one retailer when we started. So we launched on Kickstarter. Started building our customer base. And then it is hard work to meet all these retailers, get in with retailers, not only do you need to meet them and get in with them, you have to set up it’s called EDI and how you transfer data back and forth.

And so you need systems in place to be able to do this, all of this costs money. It’s a process. And so these big companies that come, they have lots of products and they’ll create a copy product and it’s so easy for them to immediately have distribution, right? They have the relationships with all the big box stores. They can copy a product very easily by watching the market and seeing what’s selling well and go into a trade show and seeing where everyone’s at at the booths and what everyone’s talking about. Right. It’s really easy to look at that from afar. Say, I’m going to copy that. Quickly copying it. And then these big companies have distribution that they can instantly get into these big box stores.

So that to me and we’ve dealt and we, and we’ve, filed intellectual property. We filed design patents and a utility patent on our self sealing functionality of the mat. And despite having IP filed, we had a big competitor copy us on our mats and get distribution into some of those larger big box stores.

And so we’ve been in a litigation since 2016. So for five years the majority of my energy is focused, unfortunately on a lot of legal challenges and dealing with litigation. And so we are fighting for our intellectual property that we believe that. That we got over the years. We just went to a trial on this litigation specifically, but I would say that that’s been a, a bigger, negative impact because the bigger company has distribution and they’re stealing market share. Like they’re selling their mats in the targets and the Walmarts. And so we’re not selling mats. Again, when, when a lot of those copies came out, those years were very, very challenging in 2017 and 18, our mat sales were steady, but they were starting to decline. We had all these copies come out that are stealing market share.

And so it goes back to protecting what we’ve built and being able to stand up to some of these folks which ezpz is in a fortunate position. That we’ve had the legal resources to do that and the financing to do that. And I can say at points, we were on the verge of bankruptcy and not in good places financially, but we’ve gotten through a lot of those tough times. But a lot of these smaller other companies can’t do what we’ve done.

And so that’s kind of crushed me seeing a lot of these other moms. And I guess I should say dads that started when ezpz started. Right? So back in 2014 and they just, they can’t, they, they havn’t made it. So a lot of companies that started haven’t made it because they get knocked off the products that gets copied, goes into the big box store And then, you’re strapped trying to be scrappy. So I, I think we’re in a good position. But it has not been ezpz, no pun intended.

[00:40:20] Jennifer Myers Chua: And you are a family owned business and you work with your very best friends. So they’re your family as well. I’d love to chat about those costs as well. What have the costs been to your family life? Like your mental health? Like you said how challenging this was, but how tough has building this business really been in terms of, of those costs to your personal life?

[00:40:40] Lindsey Laurain: Gosh. I mean, I’ll start by saying I wouldn’t change anything and I would do it all over again. And I think actually once I kind of changed my mindset… this is just part of our journey, the copies, the counterfeits, the lawsuit we’re in, it’s what we’re supposed to be doing now and not have this victim mentality. Like, I feel bad for myself sometimes. Right? I’m like this sucks. This isn’t fair. I don’t deserve this. And That’s just not a good place to be in mentally versus it is what it is. I don’t like it, but it’s our journey and I’m not going to feel bad for myself. It’s what I’m supposed to be doing. And it’s what we’re doing.

And so having that mindset for me personally, has made a lot of a difference versus like I wanted to quit so bad those years. I really did. During those really hard times, it didn’t feel fair. Like I said, I just, we didn’t have a ton of money. We couldn’t get money because we were in lawsuits. So no one wanted to lend us money. I mean, it was just this like terrible, kind of feeling versus coming out of that. And just again, being scrappy and figuring out how to finance the litigation and. Again, I’m now able to talk about it a little bit easier cause we’re out of it. Right. And we got money and we’re not broke now..

But during those times that was challenging. I would say, not only for me, but I would say the lawsuit and all of that has probably been more harder on Brad, my husband. And probably my kids in, in the sense of like, it’s just pulled me away from them more. I just got off this trial. I was gone for this trial for two weeks. So 14 days I was away. Brad’s home with his kids and that’s a lot to ask of a family and then my kids, just having to see me, deal with Legal stuff and copies is hard. I also say, I’ll say again, the silver lining with that is, these kids know how it feels to be copied and have a bully come after you.

That I am grateful for the, like the life lessons they’re learning through all of this, but you know, it’s, it’s like I work alot and a lot of it is the kind of not fun work, that is the legal stuff. But I, I’ve got a great support network. And the team is great.

I would say, going through all kinds of the challenges, I carry those a lot. So I don’t want my team to know, all the bullshit I’m dealing with all the time, but they go and they continue doing their job just it’s unbelievable. I mean, even this year specifically going to trial and prepping for a two-week trial. I it’s all I was doing, before and after. And I mean, how much innovations coming out and we just haven’t missed a beat. And so, our team is just awesome.

[00:43:18] Jennifer Myers Chua: Could you give me some insight into some of the ways that ezpz gives back?

[00:43:24] Lindsey Laurain: We love giving back. I just love giving gifts, not only to our team, but giving back to our community and I love it. So when we started ezpz and I mentioned this again, a big focus at the beginning was like, how can we get these mats in as many kiddos hands that really, really need them. So kiddos with cerebral palsy or down syndrome, all of these you know, kiddos with disabilities, how can we get mats in their hands to make their life better? And so at the beginning, a lot of our giving back was to the special needs community through different organizations and get mats into people’s hands.

We had done the changing the face of beauty campaign, which was a huge part of at the beginning, which was awesome using kiddos with disabilities in our advertising. And then over the years we’ve just really maintained that. And so we still pick different charities if anyone’s listening and you have a charity that could use mats or you think there’s a good cause we absolutely love donating product. And so we highlight all of the charities and organizations that we donate to. It’s recently kiddos with cleft palates and just all different kinds of stuff. So it’s a big part of our heart of the community of just kind of giving back and making sure we’re doing our

[00:44:41] Jennifer Myers Chua: I have admired so much all of these choices that you have made over the last couple of years. And I’ve watched you change your approach several times and in terms of giving back and sustainable materials and making better choices with your packaging, I know it’s been really difficult to go ahead, to head really with these larger established brands that have tried to capitalize on your innovations let’s say. I know that’s been really challenging, but also in terms of what I’ve seen with consumer behavior over that period of time, I can only think that they cannot compete with you because you’ve made those choices that are resonating with customers. So I was wondering if you could talk about the modern parent and why is ezpz such a phenomenon? How are you resonating with your consumers?

[00:45:34] Lindsey Laurain: You know, I think the consumer today is much more aware. When I started as a mom. So 10 years ago, I didn’t have any really online support or just, you know, all of the online community was just starting. I think that the consumer has changed over the life of ezpz. And the average consumer, the modern day, mom or dad is just more highly aware. So I think they’re more aware because they’ve had access to the internet. There’s more information that’s available to these consumers. They’re looking for safe products, they’re looking for the best products available.

There’s so much information now on different feeding methods for kiddos, whether it’s baby led weaning or the puree method. And so, again, just having more educated, aware, consumers I’m hoping lends itself well to us because we have a good story, right? We have a good mission. We believe in that. We’re very authentic, in what we do.

And hopefully just as time passes, more and more people that becomes important too, as well. So not only are they aware of companies that are doing and not doing this, it’s actually important to them. I definitely, as a consumer. I read people’s stories, that’s the first place I go to is the story page. I love stories.

[00:46:55] Jennifer Myers Chua: What about our children or your customers’ children? What about the adults of the future? How do you think that the work that you’re doing, the hard work that you’re doing with this brand, how do you think this is impacting them?

[00:47:08] Lindsey Laurain: I hope it’s impacting them in a positive way. A big part, I think of what drives us at ezpz is doing what’s right. I am hopeful that not only kids, but adults, anyone that looks and sees what we’re doing at ezpz appreciates what we’re doing. When we started ezpz, It really was about less mess and more fun. And as we’ve evolved, we’ve really tried to hone in our mission of creating safe, developmentally appropriate innovative products, and because money isn’t our driver at ezpz, we’re driven by doing what’s right, making high quality, thoughtfully designed products.

I’m I can only hope that people recognize that and continue to support us. Again, like I said, when I started seven years ago, I just quickly realized that for so many people, it’s about just making money and producing. And that’s just not what we’re about at ezpz. We’re about making thoughtfully designed high quality products. And so I really, really hope that continues to be important to families and our kids can see that it’s it’s life is much more. It’s about making great products and creating a company culture that is awesome. We all love what we do every day. The days aren’t easy and some of the work is terrible, but if you enjoy the people you work with, you can be doing the worst work and it still is enjoyable.

We’re almost done making sure we have a feeding product for pre feeding all the way up to school-aged kids, which is including my kids who are now 9 and 11. So I think by the end of 2022, we’ll have all of that built out and then it’s expanding into different product categories. And keeping that same mission of making products that are thoughtfully designed that are innovative and that the products serve a mission, right. They’re developmentally appropriate and we’re not just producing products to produce products. We’re very strategic with what we’re doing. And so I hope in five years, our ezpz community has continued to grow and more ezpz products are in family’s hands. So their mealtime can be a little bit easier and more enjoyable. And then, hopefully our team has expanded and we’re still having fun and smiling and loving what we’re doing.

So I just, I’m very grateful. I’m grateful. You’re on the team. I know you guys know this, but you and Joey and Hip Mommies for anyone listening, they were our first distributor and just our very special people and partners in our life.

[00:49:45] Jennifer Myers Chua: If you want to learn more about Lindsay and her developmentally focused products that make mealtime less about mess and more about fun, visit ezpzfun.com. Have a little one in the home? The ezpz blog has a ton of tips and strategies to help little one meet mealtime milestones. You can follow along with Lindsay on her mission to revolutionize how we feed our children on Facebook or Instagram @ezpzfun

Concerns about climate change led Katherine Ellison from Bright Planet Pet to look closely at the environmental impact of pet ownership and create a line of 100% plant-based dog treats that taste and smell like real meat. In this episode, we learn how consumer behaviour has shifted in the pet product space, chat about the humanization of pets and what this means for sustainability. And learn how you can make an impact in this area by sourcing alternative proteins or switching to plant-based treats. Which may help lower your pet’s carbon pawprint.

If you want to learn more about Katherine and her 100% plant-based pet treats visit brightplanetpet.com. In Canada? These sustainable, vegan, allergy-friendly treats are in-store at your local Pet Valu. You can follow along with Katherine on her mission to save the earth together with your pet one treat at a time on Facebook or Instagram @brightplanetpet.

Links from this episode

• https://brightplanetpet.com
• Carbon Pawprints: How Our Dogs & Cats Contribute to Global Warming
• Dogs, Cats And Climate Change: What’s Your Pet’s Carbon Pawprint?
• Ono Pet Bowls / Non-Skid, All-in-One Silicone Pet Bowls & Placemats

Episode Transcript

 

[00:02:14] Jennifer Chua: If you consider yourself a dog person, you are in good company here. I’m a proud new puppy, parent, myself. And worldwide more and more of us are bringing pets into the home. Pet ownership is trending, increasing in countries all over the world -particularly in developing ones. And how we view our pets is also changing. They’ve become like members of the family. And as pet owners become more invested in the health and wellbeing of their companions, owning a pet may come with some more significant environmental impacts. The choices that we make in terms of our pets’ diets? Well, our dogs are no longer eating meat by-products and table scraps and bone meal. Consumer behaviour has shifted towards feeding higher quality meats in food and in treats. And since meat-based foods use land, water, and energy to manufacture, up to 64 million tonnes of carbon dioxide is emitted in the production of pet food alone. Forbes magazine reported that it’s even been estimated that owning a medium-sized dog can have a similar carbon footprint to a large SUV. Love your pets and the planet? There may be some alternatives worth exploring.

Bright Planet Pet was founded on the principle that dogs and their people deserve a truly sustainable dog treat that is delicious while being 100% plant-based and vegan. Their treats create 90% fewer carbon emissions and use 68% less water than a comparable meat-based treat.

 And just a couple of years ago, Katherine, the founder of bright planet pet was working for large-scale pet food and treat manufacturers. Helping large retailers and national brands manufacture and launch new products. And in her personal life, Katherine and her husband, Dave, were finding themselves, talking about climate change.

Her husband is a scientist. He’s very concerned about all things related to the earth and the pair are very connected to nature. Being out in nature, and going on hikes with their animals. They’re often awed by the natural beauty of our planet. And as they were becoming increasingly concerned about the crisis at hand and their own carbon footprint, they began to make small changes in their personal life. Recycling more, driving less, becoming more conscious of these choices that we make in our everyday lives. And one of the biggest choices was around the food that they were eating. And what kind of impact that their diet could have. So they began to add more plant-based meals, reduce meat. And Katherine soon became a full vegetarian. But it led her to think. What if we could feed our pets this way.

[00:04:59] Katherine Ellison: Even though we don’t have children of our own, when we think about setting the planet up for the next generation, I mean, there’s a huge concern there. And so we just want to do what we can on our part to make those small changes.

[00:05:15] Jennifer Chua: Katherine and her husband live in a beautiful area, surrounded by the nature that they love. The area of 10,000 lakes, Minnesota. They share their life with two cats and three dogs. One pug and two bugs, Boston terrier, pug mixes. Her days revolve strongly around her pets, feeding, walking, and exercising them takes up a lot of her time. But once everyone is taken care of Katherine’s dogs join her in the Bright Planet office space. (She lovingly refers to them as her coworkers) as she fulfills orders works on the business. And takes plenty of opportunities for treat breaks.

[00:05:55] Katherine Ellison: And then it’s always nice to have them to have little mental health breaks and give them some hugs and kisses. And remind me kind of why I’m doing all of this and why Bright Planet is so important. And of course we give lots of treats throughout the day. We treat them with all of our Bright Planet plant-based treats. They also are my taste testers for any product development. So right now I have a bag of biscuit samples, and they usually have those when they go to work first thing in the morning, and then for their afternoon snack.

[00:06:26] Jennifer Chua: So why do you think you are such an enthusiastic pet parent? Did you always have pets growing up? Or why are you so in love with our little furry friends?

[00:06:33] Katherine Ellison: I’ve always loved pets. I grew up with cats and we always had cats my whole childhood, actually, my first word was ‘kitty’, not even mom or dad or anything like that. I’ve just always had a really strong connection with animals. I think it’s the feeling of them just providing us unconditional love that was really something that I embraced and connected with. So I’ve had pets my whole life. I got my first dog when I was 25 and now I definitely love dogs and I love cats equally. So, we have both in our household. I started working at veterinary clinics when I was younger. And when I started working at vet clinics, I found my people. Like the people that love pets, want the best for them, understand them. And a lot of people that are, have strong connections with pets have strong empathy. And so that’s definitely one of the personality qualities that I think I relate to with my pets.

[00:07:38] Jennifer Chua: So you had this opportunity to start a business and create a product, create something, but when did it go into your mind that you had the opportunity to create change?

[00:07:48] Katherine Ellison: I came up with the idea a few years ago when I was at a trade show and I was talking with some colleagues and first I realized that there was a big opportunity to make treats that were specifically created for millennials. And now gen Z consumers. And one of the big things that were trending in the human food industry was the really the huge impact that beyond burgers and impossible meat, they were really like every single grocery store.

And there was so much press about it and they had a strong sustainability mission as well. So first I saw an opportunity to just make plant-based treats and market them as such because there weren’t any products like that on the market a few years ago. And then more so based on my experience and my knowledge about trends in the pet industry, we know that the human food trends come into the pet industry in about three to five years and so more.

So I saw a much bigger opportunity to actually create a plant-based treat that was kind of modelled after the concept of the impossible burger beyond burger and make a plant-based treat that actually tasted and smelled like meat so that our pets would actually really enjoy eating that. While the owner would understand that they were making a more sustainable choice.

So once I had that concept, everything fault fell into place as far as the impact that we could make, because we were going to be able to make treats that were super tasty and delicious with sustainable ingredients that removed meat from all of the formula. Which would, reduce carbon paw prints, reduce the amount of carbon emissions, reduce water usage and land usage. And also we decided to start an initiative where every time we sold a bag of treats, we make a donation to plant one tree. So it’s not just for us. What’s in the treat or what is not in the treat. It’s also the fact that every time you buy a bag you understand that somewhere in the world in an area of deforestation, a tree is being planted because you chose to buy a Bright Planet treat. And so that just goes along with our whole mission of really trying to combat climate change? in the pet industry, by making these small changes for our pets.

[00:10:14] Jennifer Chua: I’d like to talk about the pet industry. Because a couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to work with a brand called Ono and it is a non-slip pet dish, but it’s made responsibly with silicone. And I went to one of these large industry trade shows for pets and our brand and this other brand that were making treats, I believe out of cricket flour. We were the ones with the press coming by and people were excited and Ono actually won the innovation award of that particular show. But the response from the retailers, wasn’t what we had expected. So they were very nervous to take on these new brands. And I’m just wondering in the last couple of years, since I had that experience, how is the market responding or the retail market responding to innovations like this that are sustainably minded in the pet space?

[00:11:09] Katherine Ellison: Yeah, there’s definitely been a shift. There are large key retailers who have made commitments to sustainability, like Petco. They made a statement earlier this year that they wanted 50% or more of their products to be sustainable. I believe by 2025. And so that’s a really strong statement from a very key player in the marketplace saying we understand the importance of sustainability when it comes to our pets.

We want to support sustainable companies. We will not have stock sustainable products because that’s what our consumers are asking for. And that’s what is the right thing to do? And so would we go and talk to retailers, we’re able to tell them about our sustainability mission, which oftentimes lines up with their own goals and it makes the transition easier for them to say, Hey, yes, we are going to take in your products because you are aligned with our goals and our vision for the type of products we want to stock. And that’s because the consumers are asking for it. We know that especially the younger consumers are willing to spend more money on sustainable products. And if they can find those unique, sustainable products at a retailer, like Pet Co. That gets them in the door and makes that retailer much more competitive.

So I think that there’s been a ton of really wonderful innovation. Both on the consumable side as well on the hard goods side, as it relates to sustainability, there are great plant-based and sustainable food choices for our pets now. You mentioned insect protein. That’s a huge sustainability play that is becoming much more mainstream.

We’re also seeing hard, good companies using recyclable plastics to make things like toys. And. Even clothing and things of that nature. So, there’s a huge opportunity for startups right now who are really able to make those innovative products and find a market for it. Potentially first, find that market online and then bring that into retail and partner with these retailers that are looking for sustainable products.

We started our company online. We actually started with a Kickstarter, to help fund our first production run. And we raised $10,000. We were able to take pre-orders and then ship out for our first production run. We do have a presence on Amazon and we do sell direct to consumer. That is part of our strategy, but our strategy always first has been to be at retail. We feel like there is a huge opportunity to bring plant-based options to pet specialty stores, as well as to bring plant-based options for our dogs to stores where we, as humans are buying our own plant-based meat. So our goal is to be in pet specialty stores where that consumer is looking for those unique products that meet maybe some, demands that their pets need, like allergen-friendly, low-calorie, things of that nature. But then also we want to be at grocery stores so that you can go buy your impossible burger and then you can go over to the pet aisle and you can also find a treat for your dogs that is a similar type of product. We do feel like there’s a huge opportunity for us online as well, especially to reach our target customer. So we’ll continue to grow that portion of our business as well.

[00:14:39] Jennifer Chua: You began to look into creating dog treats and you began to really explore the pet industry with kind of a different lens, now that you were going into this as a business owner. Could you tell me about the day that you realized that our conventional pet treats might’ve been, less than ideal? Why did you choose to do the a hundred percent plant-based route and what motivated this decision?

[00:15:02] Katherine Ellison: A lot of our pet treats today that we feed our dogs are primarily meat-based. So we have on the market, a number of different types of meat-based treats. You can see treats that use, whole meat as the first ingredient, like chicken or beef, or there are a lot of very popular brands that use byproducts and the main purpose of using all of those products is to get a delicious flavour.

The most important thing for me was to figure out how to make a plant-based treat that actually tasted good. And so the way that we could do that is actually by adding in a plant-based flavouring that makes our product taste and smell like meat.

[00:15:43] Jennifer Chua: I’m just super curious. How are you getting that meaty, smoky flavour that is attractive to dogs? How are you getting that with the plant-based product?

[00:15:50] Katherine Ellison: So we work with a flavour supplier and they have a whole team of scientists where they make flavours for both human food and for pet food. And so they have these proprietary formulas and these proprietary methods where they can develop flavours that don’t use any meat. It tastes and smells like meat. They actually keep that very close to them. They actually don’t share some of those secrets. But we do know that all of our flavourings that we use have absolutely no animal products and are fully plant-based. We also have the opportunity with our flavour supplier to create custom flavours that can be unique and special just to Bright Planet. And so that’s something that we’ll be working on in the coming year to come up with some unique, meaty plant-based flavours that haven’t been seen on the market yet.

[00:16:45] Jennifer Chua: Our pets that are enjoying Bright Planet, what are they tasting at this moment? What do you have available?

[00:16:50] Katherine Ellison: We have three flavours available today. We have our better burger, which tastes like a freshly grilled hamburger. We have our better brat was, which tastes like a grilled bratwurst and we have our better barbecue chicken, which tastes like a delicious chicken leg smothered in barbecue sauce. We’re also working on creating a better bacon flavour, which we’ll taste, of course, like the delicious bacon that our dogs absolutely go crazy for.

[00:17:19] Jennifer Chua: And they’re safe enough for human consumption too right?

[00:17:22] Katherine Ellison: We do have a lot of people that like to try our treats to see what they taste like. We often hear responses. Wow, this is actually pretty good, or this actually tastes meatier than other dog treats. I’ve tried. They are made in a pet facility so they’re not human-grade, but they’re made with all-natural, sustainable, healthy ingredients that we recognize and use in our own diets.

[00:17:47] Jennifer Chua: And what are the costs associated with creating something like a pet treat? Like what’s the environmental impact? What do we need to be concerned about? Like you’ve made these choices that are sustainably minded, but what are the costs associated with doing this? If you were just some big company and you’re just not thinking sustainability at all, you’re just creating pet treats.

[00:18:06] Katherine Ellison: There’s a statistic that shows that American dogs and cats eat so much meat, that if they were a country, they would rank fifth in terms of meat consumption. And so the way we choose to feed and treat our pets really does have a big implant impact on carbon emissions, water usage, land usage, and can make a big difference by making small changes.

So our treats at Bright Planet, because they’re plant-based and we use sustainable ingredients. Our treats create 90%, less carbon emissions and use 68% less water than a traditional meat-based treat.

Yeah. it’s really fantastic. Especially just by removing the beef, beef is one of the highest carbon emission ingredients. And so by removing beef, we can really make a big difference. And, when you feed your pet, our Bright Planet treats, they don’t know that they’re not eating that little tiny doggy burger. They really are enjoying that taste and that smell. And you, as the owner are just having that reinforcement that you made a great decision for your dog. You made a great decision for the planet. We talked to some of our core customers about that, and for them, it’s really important that they’re making these sustainable decisions. And a lot of it just goes back to reinforcing their own beliefs and their own values and wanting to be able to have a treat that speaks to those values that they feel good giving their pets. And our treats are full of really healthy, premium ingredients.

We use ingredients like chickpea flour, brown rice, sweet potatoes, and yeast, as a base for our treats. And then we add in those additional flavors to make it taste and smell like meat. So when you compare our treats to some other plant-based treats on the market, our treats are definitely more premium. We use high-quality ingredients. We use ingredients, you can trust, ingredients, you can understand. And so what a lot of times people look at the back of our packaging, they look at it and they’re looking for things to make them not want to buy our treats. They’re looking for things like corn, soy, wheat, canola oil, things like that. And we don’t have any of those in our products. We use coconut oil instead of canola oil. Our treats are great for dogs with allergies and dogs that have sensitive systems sensitive tummies. So they’re really great for all different types of breeds and sizes of dogs.

[00:20:42] Jennifer Chua: So with Bright Planet, you are reducing your pet’s carbon pawprint, which I love that phrase. And you’re helping address climate change concerns. Can you explain a little bit more of what you mean by that phrase?

[00:20:53] Katherine Ellison: If you compare carbon impact of a meat-based treat it’s much higher than the carbon impact of our plant-based treat. So essentially you as a pet owner, have the ability and the opportunity to help reduce your dog’s carbon pawprint by making changes like switching to Bright Planet treats or even, making changes like buying recyclable toys, reusing bags, when you’re ready to pick up your dog’s waste, not buying new plastic bags to pick up your dog’s waste. So there’s a lot of ways that you can reduce your dog’s carbon pawprint and changing the way you treat your pet is just one of them. And so we want to help enable people to do that by treating with our Bright Planet treats.

[00:21:40] Jennifer Chua: Have you made any other decisions in terms of packaging or manufacturing to create meaningful impact?

[00:21:47] Katherine Ellison: Yeah, that’s a great question. So we are based in Bloomington, Minnesota, which is right outside of the twin cities and both our packaging and our treats are manufactured within a 40 mile radius of our headquarters. And so that helps us reduce our overall transportation-related carbon emissions. And in addition, we love to support local companies and family-owned businesses. And so we really do make a conscious effort of which suppliers we’re going to work with and love to choose companies that are local to where we are headquartered. We are quickly transitioning next year into a recyclable bag. So it’ll be a number two recyclable bag that is able to be dropped off at a grocery store or anywhere else that, collects recyclable bags like grocery bags. In addition, whenever we ship our e-commerce orders or ship any of our online orders, we use all recyclable packaging materials. So they’re all padded mailers that just use, paper. You can put them right in your recycling bin.

[00:22:53] Jennifer Chua: I’d love to learn more about this tree planting program that you have. Why did you choose to plant trees? And what does that partnership really look like?

[00:23:01] Katherine Ellison: yeah. So we chose to play at trees because. Our company is really focused on sustainability. Of course, we love our dogs and cats, but there are so many other great organizations that are donating to animal welfare. Right. Our ethos is really sustainability and compounding climate change. And one of the best ways we can do that is by replanting areas of deforestation. And So we have partnered with the Eden reforestation projects. They are a 5 0 1 C3 that’s based in California and they plant all across the world in areas of deforestation and they pay their employees a livable wage. So they actually have a multicomponent mission, which is to lift communities out of poverty and also plant in areas of deforestation.

And so we were really aligned with their mission and what they do. And so we’ve partnered with them. Once a quarter, we tally up exactly how many bags we’ve sold each quarter, and we make a donation. For this year 2021, we’ve been selling our products since March and we’re on track to plant over 15,000 trees this year with Eden.

And next year we’ve really increased our distribution and we’ll be in much more stores. So we really anticipate that we’ll be able to plant even more trees next year. And it’s really a huge part of our message and our organization. We’re really proud of the fact that we’re able to help with these efforts and. Our core customer really understands and appreciates that part of our business. And it really speaks to our customer that again, is really interested in making sustainable choices as a very tangible thing. When you pick up a bag or when you pick up your bag to give your dog treats, you know that like actually one tree has been planted, which is a great trade-off, and it’s just something kind of more physical that people can relate to.

[00:25:03] Jennifer Chua: So back when you were coming up with this idea to create this business and you’re moving it forward into creating an actual business, did you have a point where you went to your husband, your science-minded husband and said, I want to create a pet product. I want it to be focused on sustainability. We want to go vegetarian. Did you have a conversation? Like what did he say? How did that conversation go?

[00:25:28] Katherine Ellison: So he was really open to becoming more of a flexitarian or reducatarian, both for the climate impact, as well as just health implications. We know that it’s healthy for us to eat more fruits and veggies, more legumes, more whole foods. And so he was definitely on board with that. When I approached him and wanted to start a plant-based treat company. He understood the vision and he understood the mission. He was actually the one to come up with the concept of planting a tree every time we sold a bag. And so that was a great idea that he was able to bring to really round out our core values of combating climate change. So he definitely understood the market and he thought it was a great idea.

And certainly, there was a little convincing that needed to happen. We have bootstrapped the company to date. So we have been using our own resources to fund the company. And so it was definitely a joint decision that we had to make as a family to decide to really bet on this idea. And bet that we could be first to market and fast to market. And when we launched it in March, we were the first plant-based treat company that made products that taste and smell like meat. And today we are still the only company that exclusively makes plant-based products. There are other people that have come on the market that are making plant-based treats that tastes like meat, but they also use things like salmon, eggs, other, Meat-based or animal-based proteins in their products. And there are also other brands who have meat-based products that have added plant-based products, but we are still the only a hundred percent plant-based company that is making meaty treats for our dogs. And we also plan to expand into cat as well.

[00:27:20] Jennifer Chua: So you did a Kickstarter and I’m sure you were able to get some feedback there from your customer base or your potential customer base, but when was the moment that you realized this could work?

[00:27:33] Katherine Ellison: We did our Kickstarter. We raised our money. We did our first formulation and we ran our first production. And I received in the first samples. I gave them to my dogs and my dogs absolutely went crazy over them. Like they were begging for more, they were doing tricks. They were really excited about the flavor of the treats. Some of my dogs are picky. Some of them aren’t picky, but just to see that initial reaction from them, Made me think, Hey, I think we have the recipe. Right? And so with our Kickstarter backers, when they would purchase a bag of our treats, we would also send them with a meat-based treat that was kind of similar to ours.

And we sent them home with, testing protocol. So we had them do two different tests. We had them do a first choice test, which is where you put our treats in one bowl and put our competitor treats in another bowl that were, meat-based you take your dog out of the room, you put the treats in the bowls and then you let your dog back in the room and you see what they choose first a number of times to make sure that there weren’t any bowl preferences, some dogs just prefer right bowls some dogs prefer left bowls. So we did that test and we also did just an acceptance test. Simply when you offer a treat to the dog, do they eat it? From our Kickstarter backers, we had over 97% acceptance rate, which means that over 97% of all dogs, when they’re offered our treat, they eat the treat. And then from our first choice test, over 72% of all dogs chose our plant-based treat first over an actual meat-based treat. And that was really exciting for us. The meat-based treat that we are testing with is actually a national brand that has very wide distribution. It’s a burger-flavored treat. And so when we heard that almost three out of four dogs chose our plant-based treat first, we knew that we had the smell right, because dogs make so many decisions based on smells.

And then with our acceptance tests, we knew that we really had that flavour. Because once they were trying our treat, there were wanting to continue eating our treat as well. That’s when we knew we had something that was going to be big. Because if the dogs don’t love your treats, the owner’s not going to go back and buy another bag.

[00:29:54] Jennifer Chua: What other feedback are you getting from your actual customers?

[00:29:59] Katherine Ellison: The number one thing that we hear is just that our dogs are obsessed with your treats. We hear things like our dogs will do their least favourite tricks to, in order to get your treats that they love every single flavour. That we put it on top of their food to encourage them to eat their food. And they gobble it up every single time. That they beg for more. And so that kind of feedback, just that the dogs are really loving the treats is wonderful for us, but more so we also get customers coming to us and saying, thank you for making a product like this, because I’ve been searching for something like this for so long, because maybe that owner is vegan or vegetarian and they want to be able to feed their dog, like they feed themselves. And so now they actually have a sustainable option and they’re excited to see the other products that Bright Planet is going to come out with because they know what’s going to align with their values and their dogs are going to love the taste as well.

Our product and our mission and our brand is really resonating with our target customer who is actually feeding a meat-based diet. Our target customer doesn’t feed beef products because they understand the carbon impact of beef, but they’re feeding like a fish-based diet or a poultry-based diet. And then they just want to have some really yummy treats that they feel good about giving their pets.

[00:31:24] Jennifer Chua: What do you think is the best option in terms of feeding your pet currently with what’s on the market in terms of sustainability?

[00:31:31] Katherine Ellison: There are so many different, great brands on the market. The way we feed our pets is also an extremely personal decision. And so there’s really no right or wrong way to feed your pets, especially from the Bright Planet perspective. We never will ask our customers to exclusively feed plant-based, it’s really just up to them what’s best for their pet and what the best decision is that they make with their veterinarian. We never ask for perfection. We only ask for progress. And small changes, and that really resonates with the people who love our treats. There are great brands on the market like wild earth. They’re a fully plant-based brand.

There’s another brand called Petaluma that they have a baked food that is plant-based, believe it’s a peanut butter flavour. There’s also companies that are trying to use more sustainable protein in their formulas. If you want to feed your dog a meat-based diet, if you look for locally caught fish or locally raised Meat they’re certifying bodies that will certify sustainable seafood. And that is now being used more in pet food. So there’s a lot of things that companies are doing to make even their meat-based products, more sustainable. So there’s really a shift and people are really looking for those types of certifications, if they’re feeding a meat-based diet, or if they feed a plant-based diet, there are so many great brands on the market today as well.

[00:33:02] Jennifer Chua: It says a lot about shifts in consumer behaviour, because even two generations ago, people were feeding their dogs like table scraps or kibble, but nothing special. And now we’re going towards sustainable or certified wild-caught fish. How has the experience of having a pet changed so much that we are now making these decisions about impact and health and everything for our dogs and cats? I just find this so interesting. Do you have anything to comment on that?

[00:33:35] Katherine Ellison: So the humanization of pets has been happening for a long time. We’re treating our pets more like family today than we ever have before. That change has been gradual, but especially with, the millennial generation, the gen Z generation, we are putting off having kids so early and instead people are having dogs. We’re really treating our pets as a member of our family. And because of that, our own values on how we feed ourselves are becoming more important to ourselves on how we feed our pets. And so that humanization trend, I mean, you see it everywhere. You see it in how we feed our dogs, how we dress our dogs, how we board our dogs, some dogs just don’t really just go to the traditional kennel of anymore. We have luxury resorts for dogs because our dogs are so important to us. And our pets are so important to us because they give us such great companionship and love. And so we want to treat them absolutely the best that we can. So that trend has been happening. We, the industry and people who watch trends in the industry, we know that that’s just going to continue to evolve and we’re going to continue to humanize our pets more, which in turn means that we’re going to spend more money on our pets, which is a really important, side of the pet industry.

For each individual pet, the owners are spending more per year than they have in the past. They’re spending more on treats on food, on veterinary care, on toys, all of that. And so that just continues to grow the market size. We also have different types of pet owners coming into the market. Younger pet owners, we have more people of colour that are owning pets. And so the types of people that own pets is actually getting greater. And we have lots more diversity in pet ownership as well. And so the industry will continue to grow and evolve and definitely shows no signs of slowing down and no signs of people reverting back to the way that they used to treat or feed their pets.

We’ll continue to see more innovation. More sustainable products. I mean, some of the exciting things that we have happening in consumables is that we have a number of companies in the pet space that are working on lab-grown meat, which is also something that’s happening in the human food space. And so soon in the pet industry, you’ll be able to buy treats or buy food for your pets, where it isn’t meat, but it’s been growing in a lab and. That’s going to come with a higher price point, but that’s going to also solve an important problem for certain pet owners who are wanting to feed meat to their pets, but they want it to be even more sustainable or humane. Really lab-grown meat is the most humane meat anyone could ever eat or feed their pets. And so there’s a lot of this innovation and a lot of exciting things happening in the industry right now.

[00:36:28] Jennifer Chua: About a decade ago, I worked in an office and one of the guys I worked with would get notifications on his phone. Alice went out for her walk, she really enjoyed her meal this morning. And I remember just thinking that was hysterical and then more so and more so you see these high-end doggy daycares like, you’re speaking about. So definitely we are treating our pets more like family members.

[00:36:54] Katherine Ellison: Yep. for sure. Both of my parents grew up on farms and so, they had a little bit of a different perspective on pets as well. And when we had pets growing up, I mean, they were spoiled rotten of course, but even the way that we treated our pets when I was growing up is very different than the way that I treat my pets today. My pets are my children. They’re our members of our family and their health and wellbeing and happiness is very important to us. And so we do everything that we can to make sure that they’re happy and healthy. That changes the way the products that we want to buy for them and the way that we treat them and all of that.

[00:37:35] Jennifer Chua: So if someone was going to try to make an impact in the pet space, what is a common reason that they might give up or walk away from this?

[00:37:42] Katherine Ellison: I mean, whenever you start a company, there is a monetary side of it that you have to be comfortable with. Especially when you think about creating a sustainable company. So our recyclable packaging is going to cost more than the packaging that we’re using today, but that’s a choice that we’re making.

So actually we will be taking a little bit of a margin hit, but we feel that making the change to a more sustainable packaging will benefit our bottom line down the road and help us gain more customers. So certainly when you think about creating a sustainable company, there are challenges. There are different hurdles. There are also opportunities like being able to be a certified B Corp or have a certification from the pet sustainability coalition that really shows that you’re a sustainable company, but those things also take time and money. And so having the resources to build a sustainable pet company, can be challenging as well.

There are a lot of great opportunities in the pet industry though, that you can take advantage of. This year I participated in the Minnesota cup, which is an entrepreneurship competition that’s put on by the University of Minnesota and we made it to the semi-finals in our division. There are different ways that you can win money. And what we were able to do with the Minnesota cup is we actually won the first evergreen and sustainable chemistry prize. And so that was awarded to us on behalf of the Minnesota pollution control agency. And so we were able to win some cash prizes and cash grants because we are a sustainable company. Also being a female founder. Having our business be women-owned, presents different opportunities for us to be able to apply for different grants and different programs, which we’ve taken advantage of. So while there are certainly challenges, starting a company or starting a sustainable company in the pet space, there’s also incredible opportunities.

And the. pet industry is very friendly. People are staying in the industry for a long time because they love what they do. They care about pets. There’s A lot of great networking opportunities and a lot of people that are really willing to help. And so we’ve been really fortunate to meet a lot of great people that have helped us along in our journey.

[00:40:12] Jennifer Chua: A couple episodes back. We had a chat with Brianna and Kristy from Decade Impact. And they work with B Corp’s or businesses specifically trying to achieve B Corp certification, which is a road that I’ve been going on this entire year. And it’s tremendously difficult. But the interesting thing about B Corp specifically or sustainable businesses is working together is so mutually advantageous, that it just helps lift the sustainability industry up. Are you finding other maybe not B Corp, but other brands in the pet industry in that space that you’ve had the opportunity to collaborate with?

[00:40:48] Katherine Ellison: There are definitely some plant-based brands that we’ve spoken to and we’re able to share mutual information with, there are some great communities of startup companies. So we have a, there’s a handful of great pet care startups in the twin cities that I am networked in with. And so we have a great kind of support system of local companies. I haven’t had as much of a chance to network with other plant-based companies, but really more so just network and find support from other startup founders, other female founders, other local founders, and really find ways that we can support each other and help each other out.

[00:41:29] Jennifer Chua: What about our children? You mentioned before that you’re not a parent of children, but you’re a parent of pets. How do you think that this work that you are doing and this journey that you’re on, how do you think this impacts them?

[00:41:41] Katherine Ellison: Children that are being raised today are going to be raised to be the most conscious generation that we’ve had and they’ll make important decisions, important buying decisions, put important policies in place so that we really can help combat climate change and make our world more sustainable. And so when they see their parents mirroring sustainable behaviour, they’ll be able to do the same and they definitely will understand the impacts and really the younger generation is already having such a voice and speaking out and demanding change and demanding policies. And when we think about how much meat we consume in the world. As I mentioned before, our pets consume so much meat and the younger generation is also going to just continue this trend of pet ownership, pet humanization, wanting sustainable products. And so their choices and their decisions and their voice is going to make such an impact in the way that we choose to nourish our pets, which in turn can better nourish our planet. We want to make these products and build this company and have this company be a nationally recognized CPG brand so that when you go into the store and you say, I want to buy a, plant-based treat, you think of Bright Planet. And that’s really our goal. And our goal is of course to be a profitable company, but we believe That we can be profitable and sustainable and give back and really have a strong message and make the world a better place just by making plant-based treats for pets.

[00:43:17] Jennifer Chua: So if you want to feed your pet, some delicious plant-based treats, where can we find you?

[00:43:23] Katherine Ellison: So in the USA today, you can find our treats on our website, which is brightplanetpet.com. We also sell on Amazon. Next year you will be able to find Bright Planet treats in 500 Pet Co.. You will also be able to find us in Hy-Vee stores in the Midwest. And today we are available in almost 400 Pet Valu stores all across Canada. We have a store locator on our website. You can pop in your zip code and you can find the store closest to you, whether you are in the United States or you’re in Canada.

[00:43:59] Jennifer Chua: And I did use the store finder and I did manage to find some, and my new puppy loves them.

[00:44:05] Katherine Ellison: Oh, wonderful. I’m so glad to hear that.

[00:44:08] Jennifer Chua: If you want to learn more about Katherine and her 100% plant-based pet treats visit brightplanetpet.com. In Canada? These sustainable vegan allergy-friendly treats are in-store at your local Pet Valu. You can follow along with Katherine on her mission to save the earth together with your pet one treat at a time on Facebook or Instagram @brightplanetpet

Romina Kwong from Eco-Friendly Events was inspired to help event organizers and business owners with their green initiatives after being a bridesmaid in a friend’s wedding. In this episode, we discover from Romina what steps can be taken to make larger-scale events more environmentally friendly. We then learn how to realistically green your holiday season at home, with small actionable tips that won’t take away from the joy of the occasion. We chat about where to buy gifts, how to wrap them and find eco-friendly alternatives for the biggest waste producers of your holiday gathering. We discuss the benefits of real versus artificial trees, talk about why you may want to skip balloons for New Year’s Eve and help you reduce waste and environmental impact with practical and affordable swaps to help spread cheer, this year, sustainably.

Organizing an in-person gathering this year? Visit ecofriendlyevents.ca/links to download a free eco-friendly party planning guide to help you reduce waste and your environmental impact over and over again. If you want to learn more about Romina and her holistic, accessible and realistic approach to environmental sustainability, visit ecofriendlyevents.ca. You can follow along with Romina and catch her live on Instagram, on her mission to help event organizers and businesses be eco-friendly on Facebook or Instagram at ecofriendly.events.

Links from this episode

• savethefood.com/guestimator
• FREE Eco-Friendly Party Planning Guide
• After Christmas – Tree Recycling Ideas 

Episode Transcript

 

[00:02:28] Jennifer Chua: The holiday season is approaching, and many of us are looking forward to gathering with our loved ones in person this year. Our holiday season celebrations do generate a lot of trash. Household waste increases more than 25% over the period of mid-November to New Year’s Eve with an extra 300,000 tons of waste heading to Canadian landfills during the last six weeks of the year. The good news is there are a lot of things you can do to reduce your environmental impact and make your holiday season a bit brighter. And this year now that extended families are gathering again, you have the opportunity to create even bigger impact.

 It’s more energy efficient to prepare one meal, decorate and heat one home than it is for several. And if you gather with friends or relatives that live locally over traveling by air, your holiday can be even more environmentally friendly. The holidays mean a lot to us, especially this year. And most of us are looking forward to the spirit of the season.

So it’s about taking practical, impactful actions that makes sense. And that mean the most. I asked Romina Kwong from eco-friendly events to join us this week and walk us through some small and actionable tips to green our holiday season.

So if you choose to skip the Christmas crackers or buy gifts secondhand, swap the Turkey for a plant-based alternative, or use your decade old artificial tree for just one more year. Romina has some realistic tips that you can take into the holiday season. And by rethinking waste this holiday, you have the opportunity to get the children around you involved and gently influence your loved ones while creating new, more mindful holiday traditions.

 Romina is the founder of eco-friendly events. She works with business owners and event organizers, helping ensure that events are using best practices in terms of sustainability. She holds a degree in environmental studies and economics and international development studies and is an advocate for environmental and social justice. But it wasn’t until she was a bridesmaid that she ever considered getting involved in the world of events.

[00:04:40] Romina Kwong: I ended up going back to school for event management. And while we were encouraged to volunteer a lot, just to get ourselves out there in the industry, I just realized how wasteful it was. And it sort of just like clicked in my brain that this is something that I could do there. Wasn’t anybody really leading this sort of like industry of connecting both environmental sustainability in the events industry. So. Shortly after I graduated and worked a little bit in the industry, I decided that I wanted to do something about it. And so I started eco-friendly events.

[00:05:13] Jennifer Chua: Do you remember a point in your life maybe way before this wedding, when you became interested in sustainability? Like, is there a moment that stands out in your mind?

[00:05:22] Romina Kwong: A couple of moments. So first was in grade four. My parents work at Panasonic and they had this like competition with energy star. And so every grade had their own like little project that you competed in. And so in grade four, I think we get to write maybe like a one-page document about why we cared about the environment I actually won that competition for my grade. And so it was really cool. And then from there it was just in grade 12 when I did like world studies and it was around the time where we had to decide what we wanted to study in university or what, like path we wanted to choose. And it sort of clicked again there. And so that just kind of has been sort of lifelong, but just popped up here and there

[00:06:06] Jennifer Chua: Did your parents influence this at all? Does your family have any traditions that were like sustainably minded?

[00:06:12] Romina Kwong: We were avid sorter household of like, this goes into recycling. This goes into the green bin and this goes into the garbage and just constantly like reusing or repairing things. So anytime I had holes in my clothing to this day, I still give it to my mom to repair instead of having to just buy something new, just because.

[00:06:32] Jennifer Chua: When you told your family and your friends that you were choosing events to make your impact on the world, what kind of feedback did you get at that time?

[00:06:41] Romina Kwong: It was more of like, huh, I never really thought about it that way. Or it’d be like, oh, that’s really cool, but I don’t think anybody gets it. And even now I think a lot of event planners or people in the events industry just think that I plan eco-friendly events. Whereas I really, I just want to work with event organizers and consult with them. So leave the planning to them and I’ll focus on sustainability.

[00:07:06] Jennifer Chua: When you’re working with a company or a corporation and maybe their event planner as a consultant, what are you looking for in terms of how to make their event more sustainable? Like, what is that connection that you’re making?

[00:07:19] Romina Kwong: So it obviously is dependent on when they bring me in, like what part of the planning process they’re in. So in an ideal world, if they bring me on from the very beginning, it’s figuring out where, which venue, like, where are you hosting it and what is available there? So what is their waste management look like? Do they have a recycling program. And what do they accept into those bins? What sort of energy does that building run on? Is it lead certified or is it green key certified, depending on where it is. And then from there, it’s just like, then we look at catering, so the different aspects of planning and just picking, like where can we make changes and impact that also aligns with your budget?

So also being realistic at the same time. So. Yes in an ideal world, I’d love to change everything over, but I know that’s not realistic. So what are the most important parts or points or values, I guess to the corporation, to the event planner and sort of figuring out ways that we can plan the event in alignment with those. So if it’s food waste, Okay. So let’s focus on catering and maybe we won’t focus necessarily on the venue, even though we could make a difference there.

[00:08:28] Jennifer Chua: When you began to get more into events and exploring this industry and figuring this all out, so you’ve had this experience as the bridesmaid and you began to realize what kind of waste events generate, and then went to school for it. Did you find anything surprising when you began to look at this world?

[00:08:46] Romina Kwong: I guess it just never occurred to me as like a festival attendee or just attending an event, just like behind the scenes, how much waste there actually is. And. Just how tired everyone is. Like you’ve been up or onsite since I don’t know, 6:00, 7:00 AM. And then you come onsite, do the event put on all the various fires that you need to and then at the end, everything just gets tossed. It’s dark outside. If it’s a festival and everyone just wants to go home. And so. With my lens. It just like clicked. You really do need an extra body or person that’s sort of in charge of that. Who can take a proactive approach versus reactive? Because yeah, been there sore feet need to change your shoes and nobody wants to do it. Including myself, if you’ve been there.

[00:09:34] Jennifer Chua: I can only imagine that something like a festival would be fairly complicated in this case, because I have many memories of attending many festivals. Like we live in Toronto and they’re here all the time. And just the amount of garbage leftover at the end and the water situation is usually problematic. Have you had the opportunity to work on any festivals?

[00:09:56] Romina Kwong: there was one. So with the wine and spirit festival, I think it was 2018, 2019. It’s hard to remember time these days. Um, They actually took a more proactive approach and they hired on a green team. So this was just shortly after, I finished school, so I hadn’t started my business yet. So I was part of the green team and I ended up leading the green team and it was really cool that they spoke to the waste management company to say, okay, so the cups that we’re using for all the drinks, they are compostable or biodegradable, and they can go into the green bin and we’re like, awesome. Sweet. And it wasn’t until all the vendors were like setting up and then they had all this garbage with them and we didn’t know which bin it went to, the plastic wrap, carrying like cases of juices or for example, we didn’t know if that could go into the recycling bin. Cause that was not something that was ever discussed with the waste management company, and they, at that point they had already left. And so I was just like, oh Yeah like there are so many other things. All the food vendors, all the things that they were serving food in. You see a lot of those brown containers now or like paper containers.

And we were like, I don’t know if this is lined with plastic, if it’s lined with wax, like can it go into the green bin? And so it was just at this point, a guessing game and. That’s when it really clicked. I was like, okay, like, this is something that people need to understand to really make that impact. And for me, it’s not about just for show, like I do care about what impact are we making? Are we actually doing something better for the earth, our planet and the people. Seeing that was just like, okay, there is something here, but we need to make it better.

[00:11:34] Jennifer Chua: And I find that businesses are becoming more responsive to sustainability. And I don’t know if that is because us as a society are driving that change, but how have you seen a change in business? Have you seen more people specifically looking for services like yours? Are they overall overarchingly really trying to make change in this area?

[00:11:57] Romina Kwong: I think so. I think it obviously depends on the generation. I think all the younger generations definitely care a lot more, it’s on their mind. They’re constantly trying to look for the eco-friendly or greener products. I think the disconnect is people will see all of these things they’re advertised as compostable, green and that sort of thing.

And all of these are just buzz words. Like they don’t actually know the definition and there isn’t really a definition, like, it’s not set across the board. If you say it’s green, what does that actually mean? And does it mean the same thing for your beauty products versus your, toothbrush or cleaning products?

There is no standard. And so I think that’s where the disconnect and struggle is, everyone has the best of intentions, but they’ve lack the knowledge both as a business, who’s trying to be more eco-friendly, but then also as a consumer as well, because they don’t totally understand the nuances.

[00:12:51] Jennifer Chua: And I think green, and compostable and biodegradable, like these are words that all of us have heard now. We all have kind of an understanding of what they mean, but what about carbon neutral? I’ve been hearing carbon neutral more and more. And even in terms of events, can you explain to me what that means? or what’s going on with carbon neutrality?

[00:13:11] Romina Kwong: It is becoming a trend it’s a little bit green-washing. There is a body that does certify things as carbon neutral, and they have a specific definition, to be carbon neutral is basically like the amount of carbon you’re admitting. You’re offsetting so that it becomes like zero, essentially. And for me personally, and my viewpoint, I think it’s a bit of green-washing because. If I’m emitting like a ton of carbon emissions and I’m then offsetting it. You’re not reducing anything. So you’re not necessarily making it better.

Same thing with carbon offsetting, you’re investing in maybe green technology, like a wind farm or solar panels. And yes, you are investing in a different type of technology that will help, but it’s not taking that carbon out of the atmosphere. And so when you hear like Elon Musk and other people in the world talking about carbon capture. That’s what they’re talking about is like taking the carbon out of the atmosphere and putting it back either into the ground or wherever and storing it. All of that is complicated. Um, But not at the same time.

[00:14:18] Jennifer Chua: What are some of the ways that we can reduce waste and green our holidays at home this year?

[00:14:24] Romina Kwong: There’s this website and tool that I love, it’s called the guest-imator. And you can input the amount of people, um, that are attending. What kind of eater are they, are they a light eater or a heavy eater, like average? And it’ll tell you how much exactly that You need. you can even account for like a couple of leftover meals or no leftovers, and then that way you’re significantly reducing the amount of food waste you might potentially have, or just like leftovers that you don’t want to continuously eat for weeks on end. So that’s one. Second, at least in my family, we gather so much and we have so many people that were never really using disposables, which is nice. But if you are that household that maybe only has like six sets, think about renting or think about asking family members to just bring their own.

I know it’s kind of like weird, but that’s where it starts is that shift in mindset to be like, Hey, we would love to just reduce the amount of waste. Do you mind bringing the set of plates for your own family? Like just your immediate family. It’s not like lugging a bunch over and, making sure you do have the proper bins at home and you are sorting and recycling and composting if you have that in your area. And also looking up what can and cannot be accepted into those bins as well. So that’s, what’s important. Just because it’s certified compostable doesn’t mean that the municipality or waste management company that serves your area will accept it. So like, for example, in the city of Toronto, all of those compostable materials, bamboo things, and all of that, They don’t accept in the green bin. So at the end of the day, you do have to throw it in the trash. So that’s something to be mindful of.

And then with decorations, is, are you reusing your decorations from years past or are you constantly buying new ones or can you invest may be in something that’s a little bit more expensive than you can reuse over and over again? Or maybe you just forgo the decorations, maybe you don’t need them. It really, really depends. And so that’s just a few key areas. I think that we can all think about reducing environmental impact.

[00:16:29] Jennifer Chua: So next weekend, we will be with my family, going to select our Christmas tree for the year. I was wondering if you had any input on whether an artificial tree is a better choice than a natural tree, or how do you feel about trees?

[00:16:42] Romina Kwong: It really just goes back down to something called the life cycle assessment that they do for products. And so it really depends on how long you’re going to be able to reuse that, um, fake tree. And you have to do that assessment and figure out which one lasts longer. From what I’ve read, the natural tree is better because most people don’t keep the fake one long enough for it to be worth it. So, um, that’s my 2 cents on that topic with regards to the tree. Like I know we have an artificial one, but we’ve been using it for years and years since I was a child. And so for us, it was just, my mom just didn’t want to deal with the hassle of having a real one. So I’ve never had a real one, which is, um, something that I might look into changing what I felt when I’m out on my own.

[00:17:29] Jennifer Chua: I will look into the product life cycle of the artificial tree. But yeah, I think it was 20 years.

[00:17:35] Romina Kwong: Yeah. It was like 15 Or 20 years. Yeah, we’ll definitely have to look it up. but I think if something like that, where if you, most people don’t keep it that long. So then it negates it being better than the real tree.

[00:17:47] Jennifer Chua: What kind of sustainable swaps can we make when considering Christmas tree decor?

[00:17:52] Romina Kwong: There’s a lot of Pinterest ideas of using like dried fruit and that sort of thing, which I think is cool. Cause then at the end of the day, yes, you can put it into your green bin. At the same time, I’ve heard people argue that while you’re just wasting fruit, which I’m like, okay, like it’s a bit of both. And so again, it comes back down to the same sort of conversation we had about the tree. How long are those decorations going to last you, are you going to keep reusing them? Or does the natural actually work better? I’m all about really what works for your lifestyle? Are you in a house? Do you have a storage locker? Can you store these things? And if you can’t then go with the natural. And if you can, amazing. Then keep reusing it for as long as you can . As a kid, we had these candy canes on our tree for years and years. Like nobody ate them, but it was just something that we kept and just kept reusing. It’s just figuring out what works for you. So not necessarily swapping everything out, all of a sudden, it’s just, what do you have? Can you continue using it and not buy new things?

[00:18:53] Jennifer Chua: I mean, my mom used to do that. Change up the Christmas tree theme every couple of years.

[00:18:58] Romina Kwong: Which is nice aesthetically, but not so much for the environment. If you’re tossing everything out.

[00:19:04] Jennifer Chua: This is one area too, where we like to keep traditions and joy. Like if you, if you do purchase an ornament from, I don’t know, a big box store or something, but it’s meaningful to you and you remember what year this was and it’s impactful on your life. That’s wonderful. But you’re just suggesting not to, do a complete tree decor overhaul every single year. Right.

[00:19:27] Romina Kwong: exactly, exactly. Use what you have. If things get broken, like if a pet bumps into the tree or your cat climbs a tree and things get broken, obviously after a while you only have so many ornaments that are left. So yes, if you are buying new ones and you’re going to keep them in good condition. Then yes. But Yeah also those natural swaps are a good idea as well. It really just depends. I won’t do it. It’s just too much effort for me. And I know that. And so you have to figure out yeah. What works for you, what works for your holidays? Cause it’s already stressful enough.

[00:20:00] Jennifer Chua: And our tradition around Christmas cards, sustainably speaking. What are some swaps we should make there? Should we be going to e-cards? Should we still be doing the glossy family photo cards and sending those out? What do you think we should do with cards this year?

[00:20:16] Romina Kwong: I think it really depends if you are doing the ones with the photographs, digital is a little bit better, but I don’t know if it’s for your grandmother who posts it on her fridge every year. Maybe send her a physical one. And I think you can always do a combination. I think it depends. For the older folks who are in your family. Maybe they want the physical because that’s what they’re used to. So send them the physical. And then maybe all your cousins and siblings, you can just send them an electronic one because they’re okay with that. They’re like, great. We’ll just like put it in an album or one of those like digital picture frames.

Figure out always that work and then just mixing and matching. Like you don’t have to do one or the other. It’s not an all or nothing. And that’s never, my approach. It’s just, maybe you try a couple of electronic. Maybe it’s two people you send electronic cards to, and then everybody else gets a physical one or vice versa

[00:21:09] Jennifer Chua: Then when you sit down to actually wrap all of those presents that we have acquired , are there some pretty easy, sustainable swaps that we can make when it comes to wrapping our gifts?

[00:21:19] Romina Kwong: I’ve started using like the brown craft paper. If you’re ordering anything online, starting now start saving those boxes and just reusing them. I know last year, because our family gathering for Christmas was a lot smaller. Nobody wrapped gifts in like proper things, they just like use newspaper, just like put it in a box and like tied some string around it. Because they knew that I wouldn’t want wrapping paper. So. Things like that, Or is there like a gift bag you can reuse, or wrapping it using like a scarf that you’re also gifting to them? Or maybe it’s like a tea towel and stuff like that.

Again, trying to be creative and you don’t have to do it for all of them. I know, like for kids, especially the joy of actually like ripping open a present is part, is part of it. And so, yeah, maybe it’s using newspaper or it’s using that craft paper so that you can recycle it at the end of it.

[00:22:13] Jennifer Chua: it comes to gifting or sustainable giving, really have you come across any really great gift ideas that we could use this year when it comes to looking how to maybe reduce our carbon footprint or make our gifting strategy more eco-friendly?

[00:22:30] Romina Kwong: Gifting services or just like helping out a friend. I actually saw a post recently on Instagram that made me rethink some things, as well is, maybe your friend doesn’t need, I don’t know a thing, like a physical item, but they need, they want a night off. And so you can babysit their kids for a night.

[00:22:47] Jennifer Chua: can I just interrupt and say that it’s the best gift

[00:22:49] Romina Kwong: Yes. Yeah, I’m happy to babysit Jennifer.

Maybe it’s a gift card, cause there’ve been saving up to buy something that they, they really needed. Think acts of service, when you think of like, the five love languages acts of service is what can you do for the person that will actually be such a huge help, that won’t cost you too much money, maybe a bit of your time. And you’re not just giving stuff for them to just pile on in their house.

[00:23:19] Jennifer Chua: I’ve received some really interesting gifts lately. And one of them was a box of frozen scones. So someone had taken the time to make scones in various flavours and then froze them. And then I get to put them in my freezer and then, bake on a whim as I feel like I would like one. And that is a really beautiful gift idea that is not coming from a store it’s really heartfelt and really, there was no plastic involved in the actual packaging and gifting it to me.

[00:23:49] Romina Kwong: Yes. Yes. And gift cards. I know they’re not the nicest or whatever, but, um, like I love that I get an electronic gift card. It just sits in my inbox and then I delete it once I use it. And instead of having now this plastic card and it’s like, what am I going to do with it after I scanned it. Right. I think the services are the best. So it’s like maybe it’s buying somebody a gift card to their favourite salon or the salon they go to or where they can get their hair and makeup done and maybe their nails done and things that people actually use or even grocery gift cards. I think those are the best because everybody needs to buy groceries and those are the best because it’s just useful. I’m the type of gift-giver that likes to find things that are unique, but also useful to the person that they’ll actually use rather than just be like, oh, thank you and then just set it aside. Are the most wasteful.

[00:24:42] Jennifer Chua: I think when it comes to children’s toys as a business owner, I’m looking to stock my shelves with multipurpose toys that are battery free, that are ethically made, all of those things. But as a parent, I am very much going to Facebook marketplace and Kijiji and going for used options for toys and because my child is used to it, she really doesn’t mind. She’s still asking for this plastic toy inside a plastic toy with batteries that I am resisting very hard this year. But overall, what do you think about buying used gifts or upcycling gifts for the holidays?

[00:25:26] Romina Kwong: I love that idea, especially with sometimes with toys, especially where it’s like, they want the thing, cause they’ve seen it on TV. And then it’s like, after a few months you don’t want that toy anymore or they kind of moved on. And so I think getting things second hand, whether it is from Facebook marketplace, which not everybody loves, it’s not the best experience all the time, but it is a good option, or going to your local value village or Goodwill or secondhand or thrift store, where you can buy things second hand, or is there anybody in your family? With us, for example, there’s a lot of female cousins and so all the clothes continuously get like moved around and same thing with toys. And so, I think that’s a great idea. I think it’s just, you need to shift that mindset for people to not think it’s weird. Because you’re like, why would I give somebody something used? Well, do they really need it new? Do they need all that plastic? And Packaging with it, or can you just wrap it nicely in a scarf? And that’s also how they carry around that set of toys or that set of whatever it is you’re gifting.

[00:26:31] Jennifer Chua: Are we as a society making shifts there, like, do you think this is becoming more accepted?

[00:26:37] Romina Kwong: I think for certain things we’re getting there. So for clothing, for example, like thrifting is now trendy, which I’m not mad about because it is a good thing, but, I think we still have a long ways to go with like gifting and things like that.

[00:26:51] Jennifer Chua: And what about regifting?

[00:26:52] Romina Kwong: I don’t have a problem with that. I just, I feel like if it’s going to be a better use for somebody else, I think again, it’s that shift in culture and with all of us if you’re going to be offended that somebody regifts something… as long as it’s not regifted back to the same person, I think you’re good. I think you’re ok. If we’re more thoughtful and purposeful with the gifts to begin with, then we wouldn’t necessarily have the regifting problem or issue to begin with. Right. Like if you think more carefully about it, okay. So, and so needs this, or maybe buy something edible, then that way, you know, it’s consumed and somebody will eat it. And that’s such a great idea. I think even like at weddings for the party favours, like just give them a cookie with your name on it or something. Cause then somebody will eat it, whether it’s that person or somebody in their family. And so, Yeah. edible gifts.

[00:27:44] Jennifer Chua: Favors is a really big one, I think, in terms of waste, any kind of party favours.

[00:27:50] Romina Kwong: all those loot bags from kids’ birthday party.

[00:27:53] Jennifer Chua: In episode one of this podcast, we had a conversation with Rebecca Saha from tiny toy company and she has a reloot bag. So she collects toy debris and toy garbage, and then creates these loot bags with upcycled toys. It’s Amazing.

So you’ve chucking your tree down and you’ve lovingly stored all of your ornaments that maybe you bought at the local Christmas fair. You’ve put those in your basement. You’re packing up your tree. So Every year we trim the branches off and put it in the backyard and we drill holes in it. So the bugs can live in it. And then in spring, we compost it and I’ve actually seen some like Christmas tree bits, put in the ravine, which I don’t know if it was a good idea, but I think it’s better than just checking it at the end of the season. Do you have any comments what to do after we’re done our trees?

[00:28:47] Romina Kwong: I think that’s a great idea. Again, I think it depends on where you live. Like I’m in the heart and core of Toronto where there isn’t a ton of greenery. And so I think, you need to pick and choose what works and what doesn’t. So for you, Jennifer, it works because where you live has a ravine. And so maybe yeah, you can leave it outside in your backyard. And for those people who don’t, then you can’t. I don’t have a huge, like thought on it. I think if you figure out what the waste is, if the city, like what they do with it, with their trees, like call them and ask them, or email them and see like, what is it that you do with it? And figuring out that I think is always good, a good option as well as like, where does it actually end up? I think, yeah, figuring out where it ends up in if there is an alternative. Maybe it is cutting it up and putting it out in the back, or maybe you use it as firewood. Or like kindling, it depends. When you’re rethinking things in events, it’s what do you care about and how can you reduce where it aligns.

[00:29:47] Jennifer Chua: I think city dwellers too. We have a different issue there. In that, for example, I’ve heard use potted trees, but then where are you going to plant them afterwards? If we live in this urban environment, we have to get a permit to plant a tree. Where are we going to plant it afterwards? And then if you live in a condo, for example, might be a better choice to go for an artificial tree, because once you then have to wrap the tree in plastic at the end and bring it down the elevator. Now you’re putting out a big, huge plastic bag every year as well. Maybe it would be worth going on Facebook marketplace or Kijiji or whatever, and finding one of those trees that someone’s getting rid of that’s artificial but still perfectly good for use.

[00:30:32] Romina Kwong: Or if you’re buying it new, you’re keeping it for that 15, 20 years and, keeping it the full life cycle. I think in my condo specifically, they don’t even allow, the natural trees like you have to go with artificial. So something to keep in mind as well. It’s just, yeah, you have to adapt to where it is you reside.

[00:30:50] Jennifer Chua: One of the things that I think of when I think of Christmas is that movie, Christmas vacation with the Griswold family and the dad completely blanketing the entire house in Christmas lights. And a lot of us have switched to led lights. But what do you think about holiday lighting? Is that impactful on the environment?

[00:31:10] Romina Kwong: Something that helps is putting a timer on those plugs or having it on a smart plug and where you can set a timer. So maybe it’s on for only a few hours at night, and then it shuts off. But it’s also, thinking about more of like a fire hazard too, is just don’t necessarily want to maybe leave it on all night. Now that most people already have led lights. It’s like, that’s great. And that’s a huge switch, just even like from an economic standpoint, like, does your electricity bill go up, significantly during the holidays? Make it a game. I like to make it a game to try and keep our bill as low as we can. And so figuring out ways. Either set it on a timer or maybe only during certain days, um, and figuring out a schedule that works

[00:31:53] Jennifer Chua: You mentioned before the guestimator, which I think is absolutely brilliant, but when it comes to holiday meals, I can just imagine the amount of waste that is generated in every home. Right. Do you have any tips on how to reduce our waste when it comes to actual food waste over the holidays?

[00:32:11] Romina Kwong: yeah. So figuring out how many people you’re actually serving using that tool as a good, just gives you a rough idea of how much you actually need. Not making the whole bag of potatoes. For example, maybe you make like half, I don’t know. If there are any leftovers that is actually consuming it, give it away. I know with my one aunt, whenever we gathered at her house, she puts all the leftover food in Tupperware containers and sends it home with every person. So first it’s figuring out, like, what are you going to make? And it starts really from the very beginning from the prep is at the grocery store. Do you need all of those things? How many people are actually coming over? Will they eat everything or are you just making it just so you have a nice spread for Instagram. So it’s rethinking that from the very beginning and then cooking and then storing the food properly as well.

So. Not leaving it out for hours and hours, and then it goes bad and then you can’t eat it. Another thing you can probably do is actually just donate the food. Can you pack it up? Can you give it to people in shelters or can you give it to, people who are unhoused, for example, in the city of Toronto, we have so many, unfortunately at this time? And so can you gift them things that from the leftovers or even on Christmas day Christmas eve.

[00:33:26] Jennifer Chua: So once you’ve packed up your tree and we’re looking forward to New Year’s Eve, I have some specific thoughts on balloons and glitter. And I was wondering if you could walk us through how sustainable balloons and glitter are, and maybe what our choices are. If we want to make better choices in that area.

[00:33:44] Romina Kwong: They aren’t they aren’t sustainable or green, especially the latex ones. Once you use them, that’s it like they have to go in the garbage, there is no other alternative. With the foil balloons. You can reuse them, you can release the air, reuse it. So I’ve actually had some friends, like message me, cause I’ve liked their photo on Instagram. They’re like, it’s been reused. Like we’ve reused these numbers and it’s like, okay, good to know. I’m not trying to guilt-trip you. But, it’s just funny that they know that people think of that. So, if you can use the foil options and you know, you’re, going to reuse them. I’ve seen people give them away or trade them on like buns or pals on Facebook. So those groups, where people are trading. Good for good. So you can look into that and specifically for like birthdays. Once you’re done with like those big celebrations, you can give them away and reuse them. So that’s one.

With the glitter, I would say try to just avoid like that. Those are tiny pieces of plastic, that we don’t necessarily think about. We just think it’s fun. I mean, I know for my mom and I’m sure other mothers don’t love the glitter clean up. So I think for both reasons, maybe not use them. I know there’s this company called botanical paperworks based out of Winnipeg and they do see paper and they have actually seed confetti. So they embed wildflower seeds into theirs. That is local to Canada and you can actually plant them afterwards. So I’ve had some friends, like plant them in like a small pot and just see them grow. They will, degrade over time and just in natural air and water or like natural elements. So I think that’s an option. Fireworks and sparklers are not the greatest. You can’t totally say no to everything. Just like, that’s my approach with it. It’s like you have to be a little bit realistic.

[00:35:32] Jennifer Chua: And what about biodegradable balloons? I’ve seen these everywhere. Can you talk a little bit about those?

[00:35:37] Romina Kwong: That is just a whole lot of greenwashing cause technically anything and everything is biodegradable. The headphones that we’re wearing right now are biodegradable. They will degrade over time. But that doesn’t mean that it’s good. Depending on what the object is or whatever it is, it can potentially leach chemicals back into the groundwater, into our earth.

And so it really depends on what they’re made of. So I’ve seen them as well. I think if you can avoid them, avoid them And use the foil ones, if you can reuse them for as long as possible, or just avoid them all together.

[00:36:10] Jennifer Chua: And then I guess choose champagne or sparkling wine from local producers. If you can.

[00:36:17] Romina Kwong: well, champagne is only technically champagne if it comes from the area of France, that champagne. So, maybe if you don’t live in that area, um, and you’re trying to stay local. Yeah. Find something that’s sparkling, that’s local. There’s a ton of wineries, especially in the greater Toronto area. If you’re close to Niagara, like there are so many wineries out there that use like wind power or solar panels. I think it’s biodynamic wines. I think that’s the word. Where they’re yeah. Trying to be as sustainable as possible in all aspects of the wine production process. And so looking that up as well, or just supporting local where it’s not travelling as far, especially in a glass bottle.

[00:36:57] Jennifer Chua: Our parties at home, why are making our events and our parties more sustainable, so important.

[00:37:03] Romina Kwong: It’s an aspect of life, right? Like we want to celebrate lives. You want to celebrate special occasions and anniversaries and if you’re going to be eco-friendly in every other aspect, why not events. Especially with the large-scale productions, like weddings and festivals, where it’s potentially only once in a lifetime or once a year, it has such a huge impact.

Like in those three days that a structure Is erected in, Yonge & Dundas square, or like another park. There’s so much that goes into it. And then so much that gets disposed of. And so that still has an impact because events are not going away. Especially now. I don’t want to say the pandemic is over, but it’s like coming slowly to an end? And we’re getting back to some sort of normalcy events are coming right back. There are so many events that are coming back in 2022 for in-person. You’ve seen a few of them now, a lot of like vendor markets are back and it makes me so hopeful and so happy, but it’s a part of life. And if you’re going to be eco-friendly in other parts, why not this as well?

[00:38:05] Jennifer Chua: And all of these swaps. All of these are like small tips. I can only imagine that these are also saving you financial costs. They’re saving you money as well. Right?

[00:38:16] Romina Kwong: Definitely. So again, not always. And it’s not necessarily a misconception because yes. Some things will cost more, but other things don’t. Like if you borrowed something, what is that costing you? Maybe a bit of gas to go get it, which you would have spent anyway to go to the store. So in some ways, it is saving you money. If you’re asking relatives to bring their own dishes to your house, that’s dishwashing you don’t have to do. You’re saving the waste that you’re tossing out into the trash and you’re not purchasing anything.

I think just resetting and reshifting or shifting your mindset is asking yourself, always, do you need this? Do you need to buy this first and foremost? And then can you get it Second hand, or can you borrow it or can you like rent it from somewhere? That way sort of like going into that circular economy where you’re reusing things and keeping things in use rather than using it and then disposing of it. And then think of like recycling and organics and compostable as sort of your last resort. Can you reduce first, if you can’t get it? Are there ways that you can get it where you’re borrowing it and renting it? So it’s secondhand?

[00:39:33] Jennifer Chua: so with all of this that you’ve learned from working in events and seeing how people are responding to these ideas, are you hopeful for the future?

[00:39:42] Romina Kwong: I am hopeful. I think the pandemic really made us all slow down and rethink how we are living. and I think that’s the most important part. And where it starts is we can’t continue living the way we’ve always been living. And this pandemic has really shown all of us that.

[00:39:59] Jennifer Chua: And we’re craving that connection and really wanting to connect with our loved ones in person again,

[00:40:04] Romina Kwong: Yeah,

[00:40:05] Jennifer Chua: making some of these swaps can only bring us to a brighter future.

[00:40:10] Romina Kwong: So we actually have a planet to live on and continue gathering together.

[00:40:13] Jennifer Chua: Organizing an in-person gathering this year? Visit ecofriendlyevents.ca/links to download a free eco-friendly party planning guide to help you reduce waste and your environmental impact over and over again. If you want to learn more about Romina and her holistic, accessible and realistic approach to environmental sustainability, visit ecofriendlyevents.ca. You can follow along with Romina and catch her live on Instagram, on her mission to help event organizers and businesses be eco-friendly on Facebook or Instagram at ecofriendly.events.

In today’s episode, we chat with Amy Welsman from Paume. We learn how Amy’s antibacterial hand gel was already in development when COVID changed everything. Why she was inspired to create a luxury sustainable and stylish hand hygiene brand, how Paume is addressing waste with their unique and chic refillable pumps, previously recycled materials and plastic neutral certification. We discover the potential risks of white labelling, why Amy has chosen sustainably produced, bio-degradable and plant-based ingredients, what she’s avoiding in her formulations that you’ll want to avoid too. And the challenges of launching during a pandemic when everyone was rushing a hand sanitizer to market.

If you want to learn more about Amy and her nourishing hand sanitizer that’s better for you and mindful of the planet. Visit mypaume.com. Want to show your hands some love? Paume’s refill kits offer all you need to sanitize at home and on the go. You can follow along with Amy and learn more about her sustainable and plastic neutral hand care brand on Facebook or Instagram 

Links from this episode

• Paume
• Knix.ca
• rePurpose Global – Go Plastic Neutral Today
• Health Canada warns about certain hand sanitizers that may pose health risks

Episode Transcript

 

[00:02:29] Jennifer Myers Chua: If we’ve learned anything from our experience in COVID times, it’s the importance of hand hygiene. I for one never carried hand sanitizer with me before the pandemic. but now after nearly two years of being reminded to wash our hands and being prompted to sanitize, when going into a public space, it has really become a way of life.

There are arguments for sure, against the over use of products like hand sanitizer, and it’s worth being cautious as there have been multiple recalls in the United States and Canada. We’ll discuss that in a bit. Many hand sanitizer brands had rushed to market. Once we all began clearing store shelves. And some of those hand sanitizers contain some toxic ingredients and methanol. And we’ve all come across those that are sticky or slimy or that smell terrible, and that are packaged in really flimsy containers, guaranteed to leak in our bags.

Paume however, is something else entirely. It cleans and sanitizes. Yes, but it smells incredible. It’s hydrating and the packaging is luxurious. And while disaster capitalists were taking advantage and creating hand sanitizers at the onset of COVID. Amy had already been working on Paume for over a year. And Paume is a hand care brand. They’ve launched with a sanitizer. But more products are on their way soon. They incorporate quality formulations plant-based ingredients. And sustainable packaging. I was introduced to Paume’s founder, Amy Welsman by Megan Takeda-Tully from Suppli. We featured Megan in episode seven and her brand is remarkable. So go back and take a listen if you haven’t heard her story yet. And I was immediately intrigued. Because Amy’s mission is to create really good products to care for our hands, which is something that we often neglect. And our hands, Amy points out, allow us to connect with the people around us.

 And Paume is coming up on the one-year anniversary of launch and launching during this time has definitely proven to be a challenge. Amy really has been the only person dedicated full-time to the brand. And she’s excited to start building a team now that she’s through with fundraising. And only a year into this, Paume is in retail. Amy has benefited from some influencer partnerships and impressive press. And she admits that it all has happened pretty quickly, leaving her to balance the little details in the day to day with the larger, more strategic and longterm all on her own. But Amy, isn’t exactly a stranger to building a successful brand from the ground up. In 2013, she left her corporate job in advertising to join a startup called Knix which is now a well-known women’s intimates brand.

[00:05:21] Amy Welsman: I jumped on board as the first hire to work for Joanna who had this incredible vision for an amazing product and an amazing brand. And I was so inspired and so excited to help grow that business with her. And I spent four years there doing precisely that and I learned so, so much through that experience. I think being in a startup environment from day one but not being at the helm was a really valuable experience because, I felt very invested in the success of the business, but I always knew that the end of the day, if things went sideways, I would be unscathed. Whereas now fast forward, I’m in the leadership position and it’s certainly a whole other level of pressure. But it was a wonderful experience on the last is to really learn how a product, how to take a product from an idea to market. And how to grow it and make it amazing. So that was that was incredible. And then I left actually, too, knowing that I wanted to start my own business at some point, I just didn’t have an idea.

[00:06:15] Jennifer Myers Chua: And when Amy decided to have a child, she decided to leave Knix because it felt like just a natural time for her to move on. And gain some experience in some other areas, while trying to figure out what was next for her. But Amy had this idea for Paume and set out to create a hand sanitizer. Having no idea what was about to happen to the category -or the world around us in only a few months time.

[00:06:41] Amy Welsman: It was actually through the experience of being a new mom that the idea for Paume came to me. It all started. As I became just so aware of hand hygiene having a baby, I think a lot of women and parents in general can relate to this suddenly, or you want to just bubble wrap your world to protect this thing. And I had sanitizer all over my house and I was changing dirty diapers and, not having anything to clean my hands in that precise moment, not necessarily having the time to go like wash my hands with soap and water. So I was using sanitizer a lot. And through that experience, I really saw that. There was a lot to be improved upon in that category. And that’s where the idea started and life before it was pretty quiet during that middle year, middle a couple years, and then sort of chaos ensued.

[00:07:25] Jennifer Myers Chua: Why are using natural products or environmental responsibility or all of these things that you’ve touched on a little bit with your brand. Why is this so personally important to you? Like, has there been an event in your life that has shaped how you see the world this way?

[00:07:39] Amy Welsman: I would say that I’ve always been a conscious consumer. Obviously, like we all go for convenience and I’m, nobody’s perfect by any means, but it’s always been a consideration for me as I choose a product like, and I’m really thoughtful about the amount of waste that we produce just as a household on a micro level. Like I’m just very conscious of how much waste we all produce. I knew that if I wanted to create a product based business, waste was going to be a by-product of that no matter what. So I think it was really important for me that I’d be really thoughtful in the materials that we choose and the sort of approach to our packaging. And of course, the ingredients that we choose. So trying to avoid. you know, Microplastics and all of the things that have really defined the beauty industry for so long. And now suddenly there’s been, thankfully, this huge shift within the industry towards more sustainable packaging, better quality ingredients that are more natural and more friendly in our water systems and is better for our skin in general.

So it was always a top consideration for me, I would say It’s not my number one. I think we have three buckets. The first being the quality and efficacy, I want to create products that work and that actually do what they’re supposed to do. So, I always knew though, there’d be ethyl alcohol in it, which is non-toxic and, obviously then the natural alternative to the chemical agent that is often using sanitizer But I also want it to be really thoughtful about like the moisturizers and like, are they going to be plant-based and how can we find efficacy there too? So that was also really important. I wanted a product that actually moisturized. So while aloe is a great agent for that, it’s very standard in the industry and not particularly efficacious, we’ve added in an extra element of hydration into our sanitizer product. Another plant-based ingredient And it just enhances that.

Number two materials that we’re using. So we’re trying to use previously recycled plastic as much as we can. And also, for us, I would say refilling is our primary sustainability mission. So as while our materials are thoughtful, we’re also really encouraging our customers to buy our dispensers just once, like by your travel. By your home pump and then continue to refill. Now there are limitations with hand sanitizer, unfortunately, there are no biodegradable packaging options. When I started this, I was like, I want it to be all biodegradable. And I had this like crazy vision. And then of course you learned very quickly well, with alcohol, you need a plastic, you need foil. you need things like this. We tried to be as thoughtful as we could and we don’t claim to be perfect. And, I, we just have a, sort of a mission that like every year we’re going to evolve as new packaging becomes available to us as well, because everything is evolving so quickly in the packaging industry. So that’s one of our key goals is to evolve as materials, improve.

And then I would say lastly, I think just to enhance that mission, we have partnered with an organization called repurpose global which has been an incredible partner in what they do really is they work with brands that produce products and they essentially calculate what their plastic footprint is by using weight metrics. Basically, they do a full audit of your business, how much plastic. The materials do we order and how, how much you selling and like, what’s your yearly sort of capacity and production. And they then create a system where they create an offset. So they look at how much you’re producing and then they say, okay, to offset.

That will require a donation of X and that those funds will go towards our various global projects that they have. They have about 20 or 30. They partner you with one in particular, you pick a partner where we’re partnered in a community in Indonesia. Plastic rolls up on the beach all the time. It’s a real problem because they’re in that thoroughfare from Asia to north America, where plastic just piles up and piles up. So they have built infrastructure in that local community. They’ve hired local people. There’s a real plastic cleanup effort and that waste is removed and then repurposed recycled and they help with infrastructure there. So it’s a real community initiative and your funds go directly to that. And through that, your impact is then offsetted. So it’s just an added layer to what we’re trying to do on a more granular level, which is like being thoughtful about materials and really encouraging refilling. Then we have this added layer, so I think we can always be improved and we’re always going to continue doing that.

 but you know, a lot of it too is just the packaging industry. They’re just now starting to really make this a priority. Like a lot around single use. And there’s been a real ban on single use sampling, but now. there are these companies that are making biodegradable options. And it’s really exciting. So there’s lots. I’m really excited about to explore, but that’s where we are at the moment.

[00:12:22] Jennifer Myers Chua: Was there ever a time in your life where you thought like I’m going to create something and I’m going to use something to create change? I’m just wondering if you fell into this or if this was always a part of you, like little Amy did little Amy have a fire inside?

[00:12:35] Amy Welsman: It’s not something that, I woke up one day is like an eight-year-old and thought, though, it’s funny now that I look back, I’m like doing some reflecting in the moment, but I was very interested as a young child, always been very into nature and animals, certainly something my parents really fostered in me.

And my parents have always been, real. I would say like environmentally conscious people. So a lot of my like natural habits and thoughts around waste production and how I purchase and, packaging and all that stuff has stemmed from them. But I wouldn’t say at when I was a kid that I had lofty dreams of doing something like this, it was a real evolution. I went from being very interested in like, Actually like fashion and advertising and marketing. And then when I went to Knix that’s when I got exposed that startup world. And then through this, I never imagined myself starting like a beauty company. Like it was just something that sort of just evolved. And it’s funny how life does that. But I wish I could say it was like a born mission, but no more just sort of inspiration from my daily life and then life just throwing stuff at me. I guess.

[00:13:36] Jennifer Myers Chua: Can you tell me a little bit more about Paume and the system and what that would look like in your home?

[00:13:41] Amy Welsman: As of now we are a single SKU brand or up until this point, and I’ll talk about sort of what the future holds, but we launched with our hero product and that was an antibacterial hand gel. Or hand sanitizer, we just like to call it something a bit different. But it’s all the same thing.

As I said, the inspiration came to me as a new mom in 2019. So this was before the pandemic. And before this category completely changed and evolved and grew and became super crowded. It’s definitely been a challenge and a, a bit of a mental game to sort of overcome. What’s happening around me. I did not launch into the category that existed in 2019. But from day one, I always knew I wanted to create a product that really worked, but also smelled really good and felt really good on your hands. I was so sick and tired of what I was getting at the drug store and how unpleasant it was. And I think now everybody can relate to that experience.

So from the formula perspective, it is a truly different experience. It smells amazing. We use a blend of five essential oils, which create this like woodsy, herbacious, like citrusy scent. And it’s a very indulgent, a lot of our customers say like how much they love the scent. And we use plant-based emollients that really do hydrate your skin. So when you put it on, you don’t you actually feel this like smooth softness which is really different from what we’re all used to. So I think that’s really important to communicate. It’s hard, over the airwaves rather than in person, you have to try it, but that’s the best I can do.

From a packaging perspective. I wanted from day one to do something very design driven. I love design. I love interior design and art, and I’m just really into beautiful things. And I wanted this to be beautiful, which was so different from at the time what we were envisioned as sanitizer. It was basically a clear bottle that sits on your counter and it’s jelly and weird and sticky and gross. And. I want it to make something beautiful. We make this cool travel bottle, which is 90 milliliters. You can take it on an airplane, throw it in your purse and it has this twist nozzle on it, which is totally unique. Most people don’t know that it’s hand sanitizer when they see it, which was my goal at first was just to really like flip it on its head. And then we’ve designed from scratch this beautiful in-home pump because as I was speaking to earlier, I had it in my house to offer guests when they came to see the baby.

And then I also had it on my change table and I thought, oh, that’s cool. Like new moms, they’re changing diapers. They have like poop all over their hands for lack of a better word. And they, they need something immediate to sort at least feel clean. That was the inspiration for the home pump.

 Little did I know that the pandemic was going to make us all have it all over house. It’s so funny when I think about it. But anyway, so we’ve designed this beautiful pump and the whole idea is that you refill them both, so you don’t need to throw them out. The travel bottle was made a previously recycled plastic. 65% and then, yeah, it’s always refillable and we have these refill bags, which use 60%, less plastic than a bottle. And they fill your travel bottle five times or your pump twice. So you get a ton of value out of that bag. I think people, it’s a bit of a sticker shock. I think we’re used to spending very little on this product. When you see $38 Canadian for a bag, you’re like, oh my gosh, It’s hand sanitizer, almost $40, but. It actually fills your dispensers, like multiple times, like that bag is going to last you a couple of months. So it’s actually a lot of value. But that’s a system.

 And now it’s really exciting. We’re moving into hand care is a broader category. I think it’s really inspired me to look beyond just sanitizer. I think this will always be our hero product and like our core. SKU I should say, but we’re really, we’re looking to expand. So we’re going to be coming out with a probiotic, hand cream again, the whole concept being that we’re sanitizing alot we’re cleaning our hands a lot. So to have something that’s going to naturally restore your skin’s natural microbiome while also being hydrating and smelling really good and looking really nice, essentially.

And then we have an Exfoliating hand wash as well or hand cleanser that we’re coming out with as well later this year. Again, the same concept, refillable bottles, you can use your Paume pump if you wish in your bathroom or in your kitchen. The pump is like our core symbol and then, lots of products will stem from there, but I’m excited to get into hand care. I think there aren’t a lot of brands that are really trying to own that. We have the Aesop and we have various body care brands that happen to have a hand cream or happened to have a soap. But we’re really gonna lean into just hand care and it’s synonymous with our name.

[00:18:01] Jennifer Myers Chua: So when you did decide to go down the route and create a hand sanitizer, and you began to look at how that’s made and conventional hand sanitizing products, did you find anything surprising?

[00:18:13] Amy Welsman: Yes. First of all, just to put it into context, I, when this idea came to me, I knew nothing about any, I knew nothing about how to get a product made for a beauty product or, personal care product, literally nothing. I was like Googling manufacturers like I was so green. So I learned a lot very quickly. And the most surprising thing I think at first was I talked to a lot of manufacturers who right away were like, oh, great. You want to make a hand sanitizer? We’ve got, we got lots of formulas in house. You can white-label them, we can be in market in three months. It was like very much like à la carte. Here’s a menu. And that was really tempting because by the time I had moved into the production phase, The beginnings of this phase the pandemic was happening and I felt this real pressure that like we needed to get going and get to market quickly because there was this like arms race happening, but that was balanced with my, staying true to that initial idea, which is, I don’t want to create a generic product. That’s not the purpose here. Like I do want to create something really unique in the formula. Probably the most important thing next to packaging. So I really was adamant. I said, no, we were like, we got to make a formula from scratch. Here’s my vision. This is what I want. And they’re like, oh, okay.

But you realize it’s going to be like four months. And then it’s going to be two months of, health, Canada, and FDA approvals. It’s like, it’s gonna be a long road. I’m like it is what it is. And I’m so glad because it was so tempting. And there were days where I was like, oh, what am I doing with this will be cheaper.

This will be faster. Like. Maybe I’m making a mistake here, but when I tried that product for the first time that we made I was like, oh, this was so worth the wait and so worth the pain. And now that we’re in market even more because I do think this last year there’ve been a lot of brands. That have come to market that made beautiful packaging and they’re marketed beautifully. But the product really is just, if you look at the ingredients, it really is like some version of Purell in a bottle packaged beautifully. And I do think that like, where we really stand out is not only in our packaging, but also in our formula. Like that’s what people really love. I’m really glad that we took that time, but it was a bit painful. Not going to lie. It wasn’t easy.

[00:20:23] Jennifer Myers Chua: So you’ve made the choice to involve yourself with a number of organizations that give back, including repurpose global. Can you speak a little bit more to what repurpose global is and what that partnership means?

[00:20:36] Amy Welsman: Repurpose global is a, a relatively new organization. I think that they’ve been around for four or five years and their purpose really is to help brands like us to minimize their plastic footprint and find other ways beyond, you know, the choices they make in their own supply chains to give back help global communities, but also really look and focus on plastic waste. Their whole philosophy is plastic is actually a very efficient, low carbon material to use. And if it’s managed properly in the whole waste chain and it doesn’t end up in a landfill and it’s repurposed and recycled. It actually is probably one of the best more eco-friendly materials. It’s light. It doesn’t weigh a lot. It’s funny, we explored a lot of different materials there’s a real trend now towards aluminum. A lot of brands, want to be plastic free. That’s their mission that they’ve chosen. That I totally respect, but with aluminum comes, other things that You don’t always think of as a consumer because you’re not like living and breathing like I am, but if you do a little bit more research, aluminum tends to be a heavier carbon emitter. When you make aluminum. Also it’s much heavier. So it’s heavier to ship, which then creates, more waste when you’re shipping. Like all of these things, it’s not necessarily about the actual physical product. You have to look at the whole chain of how it gets made. What’s great about aluminum is it’s very recyclable. It’s easy. We can throw it in our bin. Plastic is complicated, one thing I’ve learned a lot about is just the recycling system. I’ve become a little bit jaded to be honest about what is really recyclable and what makes something not recyclable, like a sticker, for example, or various, mixing of materials. And I’ve learned so much, which has been a great thing, but also a disappointing thing, because I believe. I was very naive before basically, but my original point is repurpose really takes a close look at plastic and doesn’t necessarily want to discourage brands from using it. They just want to help brands use it in a more responsible and eco-friendly way.

So they really do calculate, like they do a serious audit. And you pay a membership fee, so you pay a yearly fee and they do an audit of your plastic production. And they look at everything, not just your immediate packaging, but your shipping materials. For example, like these are little things I . Always say can make such a difference. Like if, for brands out there who are already established and who want to become more sustainable in their supply chains. It’s sometimes it can be a little thing like tape, for example, rather than have your warehouse just use a miles of plastic tape, spend the money, order the gum tape, the biodegradable tape.

We work with an amazing partner called no issue and they make biodegradable tissue, paper, and tapes and stickers. So you can brand and have this beautiful unboxing experience but also not compromise. With the environmental impact. So anyway, tape huge, like they look at that, so repurpose will look, okay. What kind of tape are you using? Oh, cause that contributes to your plastic footprint. And they really do a deep audit and of course they do. Every quarter, actually, because obviously a brand will hopefully grow within a quarter and then that footprint will change. And they also look at PCR content, previously, recycled materials. Are there any in your product?

And they look at reusability. In this bottle, the single bottle is your customer buying that once and then throwing it away or are they reusing it? What’s the life cycle of that. So they look at all this stuff, they have all these metrics and they determine what your offset cost is to offset what you produce. And you have different levels too you can be a plastic neutral brand, which is what we are, because right now we’re new and we can’t really afford the next level, which the next level ultimately is to be plastic, negative, where you actually like donate more. So there’s actually more plastic in the environment being collected and repurposed than what we’re producing. That’s the goal. Right now we’re baby steps. They’re really incredible. And they have tons of resources and like every partner brand has a micro-site on their website. That really is transparent. Like, I think that’s the key too.

There’s been a lot of organizations, give back organizations, that partner with e-commerce brands carbon neutral, all of these things. And it’s amazing what’s out there now, but I think because of the volume. Of these organizations, there’s a lack of transparency out there. I think we’re just inundated with this hate to say greenwashing, it is a bit like, 1% and give back, and this is the standard cost of entry now. So everyone sees it with all the brands. But I think like if you can be really transparent in what those dollars are doing and what this partnership achieves it just adds more legitimacy.

They’re so great at applying, providing all those tools for you to really educate your customer of like, where is that percentage going? So they’ve been a really great partner and I’m excited to grow with them as we grow and it does make me feel a little bit better about our footprint, because to be honest, plastic really does make sense for us. And aluminum just, I really tried to figure out other materials. And because, also, sanitizers so limiting because of its alcohol content, we really had a very limited number of options of the types of materials we could use. So we settled on it. We committed, but now we’re trying to find ways, to, to offset.

[00:25:48] Jennifer Myers Chua: There’s been a lot of recalls I’m just wondering if you have anything to comment on the recalls of hand sanitizer.

[00:25:55] Amy Welsman: First of all, I have certainly kept a very close attention to them though. I will say that I think a lot of the brands that were having issues were there’s two things that were happening. Health Canada was constantly changing rules and regulations, I think prior to the pandemic this product category was fairly shallow and it’s regulatory.

Like, I’m not sure that they had really had an opportunity to see different circumstances and see different versions of formulas. Like it was a pretty standard, easy product that just existed. And the, I think the regulation around it was pretty light. I would say I’m not an expert. I just, this is my sort of thesis. Then what happened during the pandemic was suddenly the demand was so strong. That brands, we’re making products from everywhere and rushing to market and just needing to get people just needed sanitizer in their hand. So there was a lot of rushing happening, a lot of cutting corners, things being made abroad that, maybe under circumstances that weren’t compliant, like. So I think there were some brands that fell victim to to the rush and that’s unfortunate. I also think. As I said, health, Canada, I think just changed their rules are like, oh wait, no, that was made, oh, that actually can’t be made for whatever reason. This is like toxic levels. And then people had to go back to the drawing board and there were recalls.

So I think there was a combination of just, it was a bit of wild west for awhile. And because the product was in such high demand. It, that was the casualty of it. I think now the regulations have been much more like clear and tighter, and I think now brands know how to follow, because I know for us, I engaged with the regulatory agency, like from day one, because I knew I wanted to sell this in Canada, in the U S and I wanted to do it by the book. Like, and if it took longer, it would take longer. You just don’t want to be in a situation where you’re being recalled. And they really held my hand throughout the whole process. And every time I got a recall alert, or saw an article on that, I trust me. I had friends emailing me every day, being like, have you seen this?

Or investors are like, you’re not using this. Are you, it was like it was a, there was a period of time where I was getting inundated and I’d constantly just feed it off to my agency. Are we okay here? Like, can you give me some peace of mind? We really did follow the rules, but I do think it’s, it was a bit crazy for a while and I think that’s calmed down a little bit. It just proves that if you’re going to make a product that goes on people’s bodies, like you really have to work with the right regulatory partners and sometimes it’s as simple as like a mislabel or something, and it’s like, it can be detrimental, hugely detrimental to your business.

[00:28:24] Jennifer Myers Chua: Now that we are sending all of our kids to school with hand sanitizers, like attached to their backpacks. It worries me that health Canada maybe is discovering toxins in our hand, sanitizing products.

[00:28:39] Amy Welsman: Yeah, I think I think what I would recommend people shy away from as any sanitizer that claims to be alcohol free. What that means is it’s using a chemical agent, which is health, Canada approved, but it’s still, if you’re really someone who doesn’t want to be putting chemicals on their children’s or on their own bodies.

 It’s funny. It’s like the opposite of what you think is in so many other categories, people are like, Ooh, it’s alcohol free. That’s a really good thing. For some reason we’re conditioned to think like alcohol free is really good in cosmetics in general. And it’s funny in this, the alcohol version of sanitizer is actually the more natural version than the alternative. And it’s funny because it smells harsher and you definitely like. It doesn’t smell like it would be more natural cause it has that alcohol scent. But the alternative, scent free, alcohol free, means there’s a chemical agent in there. I’ve always been wary of that. Everyone has their own personal choice, but we chose to use alcohol because it actually is the more natural way to go.

[00:29:38] Jennifer Myers Chua: I think most people know that there’s alcohol in hand sanitizer, but I think as just a regular person who may be using it, after I go grocery shopping or whatnot nowadays, I don’t think we think about what else may be in hand sanitizer. You’re silicone free, paraben-free free of artificial fragrance, cruelty-free, I was wondering if you could speak to some of those choices that you made, that maybe we are completely unaware that we are putting these things on our bodies, because we have no idea what’s in hand sanitizer in the first place.

[00:30:13] Amy Welsman: There’s a real range, I would say. I think in your basic drug store, it’s mostly alcohol with some sort of blending agent, which is often a chemical with aloe and then artificial fragrance. And there’s nothing, wrong with these chemicals. They’re all, Approved and regulated and like, but I think for the conscious shopper, that’s really trying to minimize, it’s not about that one product that you’re using that has, parabens in it. It’s the culmination and the combination of like all the products you’re using in your medicine cabinet, it’s like, okay, what am I putting on my face? What am I using on my hands what am I using on my body? What am I using my hair? And I think it’s the combination of that. But I think.

As we get into more premium products in the beauty industry, silicone is like, and it’s definitely on its way out, thankfully, that was a real hot ingredient for awhile because basically you put it on your hand and it would have this feeling of just, it was so smooth and you’d be like, oh my gosh, like my skin feels amazing. And really it’s just a plastic that’s sitting on the surface. Again, giving you this like gummy feeling. And I just knew that if I was going to, make something that was really going to moisturize and really going to feel good we had to do it in such a way that used natural ingredients, but also had effectiveness, but also did avoid, those no-no ingredients.

And I was really also. Mindful of certain retailers. So like now, I there are a bunch of retailers out there that will not take products that have certain ingredients and they have very strict guidelines. And I remember as I was formulating our new products and this one, I was constantly checking their lists because I always knew I really want to partner with these guys. They match our philosophy. Like there are these incredible partners. And luckily we’re actually launching with credo in the U S and the detox market in Canada in the U S and next month. But again, like to get into these retailers, you really have to jump through hoops in a way to show that, your products, you meet their guidelines. And it’s something that’s a big advice for people who want to bring brands, bring products to market and are wanting to be really thoughtful about their ingredients. Like look on those lists. Educate yourself. Because when you’re working with a lab in a formulator, they’ll throw you stuff, oh, we love this we use it in this other product that we manufacture. We happen to have a ton of it here. Why don’t you use this? It’s great.

And you have to be the one to say, and I was so naive in the beginning. Like, I didn’t know anything. I would have said yes to probably anything, but I was like, wait, no, I’ve got to make sure that I’m like taking these boxes. And I was empowered by that knowledge. And I was say, you know what? We actually can’t use that because this is against this and I want to be able to work with them. That’s big advice for people who were starting fresh and working with formulators, with no experience, like really educate yourself and understand what you’re putting in your products, because that’s not necessarily their job. They just want to create a good product that you can afford. You have to keep on them for, certain ingredients and all of that.

[00:33:09 Jennifer Myers Chua: I think that’s the reason that I’m really skeptical personally about private labeling is that people are happy to effectively purchase an already created something. It doesn’t have to be a personal care product. It can be anything. And they really have no idea what went into making that product. What’s really in it. Because it is advantageous for the person who’s manufacturing it to use what they already have. To use the knowledge they already have, regardless of if that aligns with the brand’s values.

[00:33:43] Amy Welsman: We’ve had some manufacturing challenges and we’ve had to move partners actually a couple of times, mainly around actually just the filling of our packaging. We have unique packaging. spout coaches are a relatively new thing out there and because we’re also sanitizer, which means we’re considered a hazmat like dangerous, good crazily enough cause we have alcohol in it. It’s very complicated. And anyway, we’ve had to move a few times and I’ve had to bring formulas to new fillers and you can tell right away their resistance, like, oh, it has that ingredient. Like, we don’t really carry that ingredient. We’re going to have to now buy it. And it’s like, you can see if you lift up the curtain, like, every manufacturer and filler has like their sort of standard list of ingredients they like to use. So you have to kinda like dig at them a little bit and push them to look beyond that, those limitations, if you really want to create something super unique. And they’ll, they come around and they’re like, okay. And they make it work. But it is it’s a good thing to know as you go into it that if you want to create something truly different, like you got to push for it and it’s not as easy as it may appear.

[00:34:47] Jennifer Myers Chua: Now that we are somewhat returning to normal, where are you at and how does this unique experience of the last 18 months influence how you’re shaping the next phase of growing Paume?

[00:34:59] Amy Welsman: I would say that the pandemic was. both a gift and also a curse. I think many people would agree with that. Overall, it was a terrible thing I should say, but from on a micro selfish level, it was the push I needed to take this business to the next level. This was really an idea in my head for a year and a business plan out of PowerPoint. And then when I saw what was happening to this category as the result of the pandemic, that really pushed me to move full steam ahead. I guess that’s a silver lining. But it also presented a lot of challenges with on many levels. We were, we didn’t have any childcare. I had a one-year-old when the pandemic started, she’s now two and a half. It’s crazy. And we didn’t have help. We were on lockdown with her and my husband and I both worked and I was building this business and he was working and it was really challenging. Luckily we’re out of that phase that was a six month, very intense period.

So that was, really a part of that journey. And I would say that another gift I suppose, of the pandemic was that it really put a spotlight on this category for better or for worse. I think, it for definitely for better, I would say, I mean it improved. I think there’s a lot of great new products in the market. It’s a category that. Is really important. I think we’ve all discovered that hand hygiene is not just a, a nice to have it as essential to making our society work. We all need to be clean and we have a responsibility to ourselves and to our families and our loved ones and our community to, be careful and be mindful of our hygiene habits.

So I think sanitizer plays a big role in that. So I think that’s a really positive thing to come out of all this. Hopefully they’ll just be less cold and less flus and hopefully COVID will go away eventually. And as far as the future I do feel like I’ve come out of this. I have, there’s been a turning point. For me personally, and for this business, for all of us. I think we’re all feeling this like renewed sense of hope that life is going to return to normal at some point. It’s now like within our grasp. And with that has come a real hope that I have in this business. And I think I spoke to this earlier. Moving away from a single SKU and moving into like a broader category and what the possibilities are for that. And I think also raising money really opened my eyes to that. Cause I had a lot of investors saying or potential investors saying, we love sanitizer. It’s great. But like, what are you going to do to make this business like blow it up, like in a good way. And I had to really be thoughtful about our product pipeline and what that looks like. And what does the next five years look like and where do we see this brand growing? And I think that was really exciting. And it ties nicely with this like societal renewal of hope in the future.

So it’s funny how it’s been. It’s like it originated in the pandemic. By pulling the trigger and then now as we’re coming toward the end, it’s like this, change in vision in this broadening of our vision. Yeah, that’s my, my, an analysis of the last year and what’s to come.

[00:37:52] Jennifer Myers Chua: I was going to ask you more about hope, but you just brought it up, So with all that you’ve learned now about our dependence on plastic and some of the items that we’re having in our personal care products, which are maybe not as good for us as we originally thought. I’m just wondering if you’ve seen enough of a positive shift in society? And I want to know how hopeful you are for the future.

[00:38:17] Amy Welsman: Oh, gosh. Okay. I’m definitely hopeful. I think when I look at the industry that I’m now finding myself in there’s a lot of hope there. I’m seeing a lot of brands, being forced really by consumer demand, to change their habits and to improve their environmental policies and their packaging.

And, even a brand like Caudalie that announced last year that it’s going to be doing this huge overhaul in its supply chain and packaging, and like that for a brand that established to really incorporate sustainability as like a primary mission is amazing because I know what it takes even just as a small brand to make a change is complicated enough. But to take an established brand with millions of customers to, to make that change. It’s a huge undertaking. And it’s the reason why they said it would take four years, which is fine. What take all the take the time you need. Obviously like don’t take too long, but you know, that gives me a lot of hope.

I think the beauty industry specifically, which is a huge waste producer is making these changes and that, that gives me a lot of hope. And I think also in like the food industry and there’s a lot, to me, the worst culprit is like the, is the grocery store. Not to get all preachy, but I just like all of these single use, especially having kids, I think a lot of mothers can relate to this and fathers who shop for convenient snacks for their kids. And it’s all like, the liquid yogurts in the plastic bottle and it’s thrown out. And from what I’ve learned about recycling, so few of these materials are actually recyclable. You throw them in your recycling bin, but they’re really not getting recycled, not to like shock anyone, but it’s really a depressing thing when you really learn about that industry.

So there’s areas where I don’t have hope because it’s going to take so long, but, and then I also see like the steps we’re taking. So it’s a balance of like hope and a tiny bit of despair. I think if everyone on an individual level, you don’t need to like, go become like a plastic free household or do something dramatic. You can liken this to so many other behavioral changes, it’s a slow evolution and a lifestyle change. That’s not too overwhelming to take on. Like, you don’t have to go change the world necessarily, but just look at your daily habits and make those little tweaks. And it’s amazing the impact you’ll have.   I always talk about the tape thing. It’s like just don’t use plastic tape if you’re an e-com brand, like use another alternative. It’s those little things that can make a big difference. And I hate to get preachy. I do think that like, we’re, none of us are perfect. I certainly am not, I’m not claiming that, but what I do try to do is like, just make those little changes every day in my habits.

I think having been through the Knix experience in those early days, and now obviously it’s such a huge success story and so amazing. I think often in society, we tend to only see the success. We don’t often see the failures because by nature of social media, no one’s really putting out there when maybe they’re having a bad month, or sales are really bad or, challenges are happening. You don’t get to really see that behind the curtain. It’s all the public facing things that you see. And I know for me, I really struggle. I look at other brands on social media. I’m like, oh, they’re just killing it. I think it’s really important that you have to regulate that and understand that what is only the success and you don’t see the work and all the blood and the sweat and the tears that go into making that success. And I just know that it’s really, it’s a really hard thing to launch a business and I never liked to sugar coat it. I. I think that’s unfair to do to people. Because again, I do think there’s this idea out there, by what we see on social media that like being an entrepreneur and a founder is this like kick ass, like amazing thing. Founders have become, to a certain degree, like new celebrities in a way. They have amazing success and we all like admire them for it, but they don’t people don’t always talk about how hard it is in the beginning and just surviving is hard enough. And being able to just take day by day and not let the outside noise affect you. And know that, you have bad days, bad months. Bad years. And if you persevere and stick a stick around long enough, typically like good things do end up happening. I think a lot of it is about survival. Like, can you survive those first three years? And if you can then. I think the possibilities are there, you’ve got to really have this mental stamina and this determination and this resiliency that not everyone has, and that’s fine. I don’t know. I often say like, I feel like on some level I hate myself, it’s like, what am I, why am I doing this to myself? But then the winds are really high and it’s like a drug, but yeah, a lot of it is a mindset as well as as an entrepreneur in the hot seat.

 

In today’s episode, we chat with Anong Migwans Beam from Beam Paints. We learn how Anong’s father taught her to harvest pigment near her home in M’Chigeeng First Nation on Manitoulin island, how she’s been inspired by her artist parents and indigenous paint traditions, we explore her deep connection to colours, and discover why she’s made the choice to use beeswax, cotton remnants, cedar and birch offcuts and other sustainable materials over plastics for her packaging.

If you want to learn more about Anong and her plastic-free paints handcrafted from harvested pigments and wildflower honey visit www.beampaints.com Looking to support a 100% indigenous-owned business? You can purchase Anong’s beautifully vibrant paint stones direct or through independent art supply stores across Canada. You can follow along with Anong and be inspired by a life full of colour on Facebook or Instagram 

Links from this episode

• M’Chigeeng First Nation 
• Anong Migwans Beam Artist Site
• Carl Beam in the Canadian Encylopedia
• Ann Beam Galerie du Nouvel-Ontario (GNO)

Episode Transcript

 

[00:02:13] Jennifer Chua: “Pollution is nothing but the resources we’re not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we’ve been ignorant of their value.” This is a quote that Anong shared with me and it’s by Buckminster Fuller, she brought it up during our conversation. And after learning more about Anong and her process. It’s so clear why this quote resonates with her. Anong manufacturers, high-quality watercolours by hand blending together lightfast pigments tree sap gum Arabic and Manitoulin honey, her paints are brilliant and they’re well-loved by her customers.

She uses materials that would otherwise be waste as well from a number of other businesses to create beam paints, including byproducts from mining offcuts, from an indigenous sustainable lumber operation and remnants from the textile industry and beam paints are proudly operating as plastic-free as possible. Her packaging is completely free of plastic and we’ll learn more about what she uses and why she does so in a bit. And constantly evaluating her choices to find more sustainable solutions is something that Anong really enjoys. But what makes the story of beam paints so interesting is that Anong’s business is the result of a multi-generational love of pigment, paint, colour, and innovation.

Anong was taught from a young age, how to harvest pigments in the Le Cloche mountain range near her home in M’Chigeeng First Nation on Manitoulin Island. And it’s her early education in indigenous pigments. The fact that she sources the minerals and the pigments for Beam Paints locally. The influence of this artistic world that she grew up in and how clearly so many of her life experiences have woven their way into this venture. Today Anong operates out of two studios, right where she grew up, she’s raising her sons here. There are a lot of people and animals buzzing around. There are goats and cows and chickens pheasants. And on either side of the property are the studios. Anong operates the fulfillment side of the business, the shipping, the packing in her mother’s old art studio. And the manufacturing of the paint from her father’s art studio. Beam paints, what Anong is trying to do with the brand and the impact she’s creating is so tied to this story. And so tied to this place.

[00:04:43] Anong Beam: We’re here in Mchigeeng first nation on, uh, my parent’s family land. So I’m about half an acre away from where my dad was born in a log cabin in the forties.

Both my parents were artists they were fully self-employed as artists for my whole childhood. They had had other jobs. My mom was the first woman ever employed at the Toronto Star in the art department in the sixties. And my dad is renowned Canadian artist. He was a governor General’s award for excellence in visual arts winner, 2004 or five. And he was also the first indigenous artists to be purchased as contemporary art by the national gallery of Canada in 1986. So big shoes, big, uh, big thinkers.

Really so much of what I do now is really so much like what my parents were doing with me when I was a kid. And, uh, they were both really interested in, uh, traditional ceramics and traditional pigments.

So we spent, I was homeschooled. We spent a lot of my youth driving. All over north America, down in the Southwest in Arizona and New Mexico and in BC, all parts of Ontario and, uh, visiting other artists or their ceramic indigenous ceramic artists painters and all the while my dad is looking for different pigments, different rocks. We were always off on side of the road, off at quarries or gravel pits, rock cuts, different different places, looking for stones that had those particular qualities. And that was my favorite thing. I just loved looking around it, all of the rocks and the colors and the differences that could be found.

[00:06:53] Jennifer Chua: Could you explain how pigments work? Cause I think that this is something that people might not understand, where a pigment paint might come from. Can you us an idea of how that whole process works?

[00:07:06] Anong Beam: Yeah, it’s something that I didn’t really understand. And it’s definitely not widely understood. Probably because the ability to make color and pigment is so, it’s so broad, there’s so many ways to approach it. And historically, it’s been such a journey like the us as humanity, all cultures of really. United in this search for great color, like through the centuries. So you see the history of color, really igniting trade routes between Asia and your aunt. Uh, early explorers being really excited about sources of color and a lot of the color becoming so defining to groups of people to countries.

Rose matter, red was the red that England used for the red coats. So, they had huge industry in obtaining routes to get matter, to make that die, to have that in their flag as like a national colour. And that colour becoming widely used was one of the first, uh, synthetic colours. So the ability of. Humans to synthesize colour, which gave us the ability to have more non-toxic choices of color. I think, uh, even early on, because we’ve been such colour hounds, humans, used a lot of, uh, dangerous substances. I think in the natural world, the most beautiful colours are created most of the time from, uh, toxic substances.

So like lead, cadmium, uh, heavy metals create beautiful colours. So one of the most significant things in this century has been the development of, uh, non-toxic synthetics and manmade pigments. Then I kind of weighed into this in an interesting spot because. I do harness a lot, of pigments and a lot of components for my paint. And I also use man-made synthetics. So my view of it as a child of artists was that the primary focus of paint should be the quality and the safety for the user. So I.

My father, actually, my mother is in long-term care. She has Alzheimer’s and my father passed away when I was pretty young. I was 25. Before he passed away there was, there were blood tests done and collation therapy that was to remove heavy metals from his system. He had a really high load of heavy metals. And I definitely attribute that to the fact that he looking back through his paints, made choices to use those colours that came from those heavy metals. And I think that the term natural gets attributed to colours of the earth, these heavy metal colours. These are naturally occurring. So I think in pigments in paint, there’s an idea that oh, natural is healthy and good, and we want to get back to nature. And I think that’s where the awareness of the natural world and the power of what’s natural is not, I think we’re in a time when people want to be eco and natural. So there’s this kind of cartoon idea of mother earth. all things being from the earth as being, cartoon-ally healthy and edible when the true force of nature is that there are a lot of very, very powerful things that are not healthy.

Just to go back to your original question and answer it a bit more succinctly. Paint comes from so many sources and over time it’s come from so many sources. But what we’re really talking about is a substance that comes from plants or minerals. Or is manmade in a way that we would take a piece of iron and let it rust and then collect the rust to make a, a colour. Those processes create manmade and natural pigments. Really, what we’re talking about is a substance that is going to reflect light in a certain way to make your eyes see colour. And the further you get into all of that, it’s absolutely fascinating because the ability of a substance to reflect colour means. It’s absorbing into it, the opposite colour, and it’s rejecting the colour that you see.

So in actual effect that object, like say, a bright red tomato, it’s rejecting the red part of the light spectrum, but it’s absorbing into the green. So when in and of itself, the essence of that tomato really is a green tomato, but you look at it and you see a red tomato. And so there’s a lot of different ways to look at it. It’s no wonder people get confused about what kind of pigments or paints they’re using.

[00:12:56] Jennifer Chua: So it sounds like your father at least was really inspired in his art by the natural world. And I was wondering how inspired you are by the natural world or what you’ve taken from the natural world when creating beam paints.

[00:13:09] Anong Beam: Uh, A lot of how he approached making pigments was really from the natural world. These stones become these paints and I found a way to hybridize his approach. And in some instances, We have a set of natural colours that are, this is slate. This is graphite. This is limestone. And then we’ve been able to meld that with other synthetic colours. So we have really electric purples, really bright, hot reds, and they’re all non-toxic so that’s been really enjoyable. They’re certified. ASTM D4236, which is the standard for art supplies. They also meet LHAMA and the California prop 65. So we don’t use any of those listed anything under those regulations.

[00:14:09] Jennifer Chua: Can you remember an event maybe from childhood where you really feel like it’s the first time that you made this connection with pigments and paints really became aware of of the process of making paint in general?

[00:14:24] Anong Beam: I have a lot of those actually when I think back. I also have maybe synesthesia or something like that where I really am affected deeply by colour. And, um, one thing that really stands out, I think with, uh, being at a rock cut in Akash mountains is my dad. he’s filing a rock. He’s looking for something and that he finds one that’s not it, finds one. and it’s it. He files it off into my hand and he puts a little water on it. He rubs it into the palm of my hand. And then he shows me that, uh, this one, this is pigment because if we wash it off, it’s going to stay and everything else will just wash away. He was showing me how to discern between those., but I remember it feeling it, and seeing it, and having him explain it and really feeling excited and attached that, we found this amazing capability inside this little rock that looks so much like all the others, but it’s not.

[00:15:37] Jennifer Chua: it’s. almost magical. Isn’t it?

[00:15:39] Anong Beam: Oh, yeah, it is it’s. So every day I’m really amazed at what I get to do, even when there’s something like I can mix the same colour. Many times, but even when I take to say we’re making that an ultra Marine blue and I get to take all of this blue and put it into a great big bowl and sometimes I, I have other people who work with me and I’ll have to stop them and say, Jay, look at that. Wow, that’s a bowl of blue. It’s just so beautiful. So blue.

[00:16:14] Jennifer Chua: Is there anything that you learned from your mother and her artistic pursuits that has influenced your current business?

[00:16:22] Anong Beam: Yeah, she was really like, well, they both worked in watercolour and, but she was the one who probably, was always toting me around. Both in their own ways, they both kind of showed me ways to have an idea and explore it. Or have a possibility and pursue it.

Like, uh, this is avocado it’s very delicious and we can plant the seed and grow this. It becomes a tree and, being present and feeling authority to investigate how things are done and different ways to, to do them. They, they both were very much like that, but, directly from her, I think, making rose matter. That kind of came about from her. That was one of her favourite colors. And she was the one who introduced colour names to me, which I, I still really love because they’re so evocative they’re so, uh, they’re so personal and there is a standard to them, but then there’s also all exist variety. So, each paint-making house will have the rainbow of their colours and there are certain colours they’re kind of still. colours, like an ultra Marine, but if you get an ultra Marine in France then it’s Autremer, beyond the sea. Like you, you have different ways of saying the same thing to describe the same colour. One of the only colours that I’ve made as a, as an ink, that’s not like fast is Rose matter genuine.

It’s steeped out of the roots of the matter plant. And I made that for her because it was just to feel close to her because it was her favourite colour. And when I made it available to the public, I told people, we’re in an interesting time wherein ancient more ancient times, pigments had to be lightfast because there was no photographic ability. So. That art or that writing had to endure because there was no other way. It was the recording of an event. And now I think so many things are made to be consumed and recorded in a digital way that I think it could let us go back to exploring different kinds of colour, that change. and are more ephemeral or don’t have a century of life, but are very tender and beautiful in the moment. So the Rose matter ink, I made, it with paint on a peach, yellow, and as the ink absorbed oxygen returned the deeper pink. It was colour-changing on paper. And it was really, it was really amazing.

[00:19:33] Jennifer Chua: Do you remember the moment that you decided to take beam paints and actually create a business out of these traditions and this love that you have for paint?

[00:19:44] Anong Beam: So this is where things get business is personal. Especially I think for, for women, but definitely for me. I was in a difficult relationship where my partner had alcohol issues and it became really, um, became a dangerous situation for myself and my sons. Before that, and in the middle of that, I had started an art supply store. And it was very small and I only had a season of it, but in that small window of running this little store in a very rural area, people would come in and they loved watercolour and wanted to buy paints. And I felt like because it was such a tiny store and they wanted me to say that I made the paint like they would ask where it was from. And I’d say, well, it’s from China. It’s paint. This is the same paint like any other store. And they always seemed so disappointed that it came from somewhere else. And I remember at first thinking, where do you want me to say, like, you want me to make the paint too? And then that was after saying that, that I was like, I make the paint. I bet you I could make the paint. But at the time I think I voiced it out loud.. And somebody heard an old partner and he said, uh, whoops, you ridiculous? Oh, no, no. So it was kind of shelved and my life went through a lot of changes. We, we left that situation and I actually moved into my mom’s house on her couch with my two kids who are under, under five at the time.

[00:21:34] Jennifer Chua: That’s difficult.

[00:21:35] Anong Beam: Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was, but it was a totally clean slate and it was worse than a clean slate because it was a clean slate with debt. And, uh, I, I ended up being left as the responsible party for debt run-up in my name. I felt really free though, because all of a sudden, I didn’t have to take care of this really messy situation. I cleared it away and I was focused on myself and my kids. And I think at that point you do really think about family. I thought about when I was younger and I started making paint and making more and more paint and it was just so enjoyable. I felt fantastic. And that’s when I started an Instagram page about it. And I started offering paint for people and just kind of continued evolving from

[00:22:38] Jennifer Chua: it sounds almost like therapeutic. Really.

[00:22:42] Anong Beam: Yeah, it absolutely was. Yeah, absolutely. Because I wanted that connection to my family who my father had passed away. I didn’t have all older family to kind of shepherd me through this difficult point. So kind of meditating on that and sharing, I think, sharing with my kids, the actions and that the things that I used to do with my parents. And so we’d go out to little rock cuts. My boys would have their little rock hammers. We’d go exploring, looking at stones, looking at things that could be paintable.

[00:23:23] Jennifer Chua: So when people were coming into your store and noticing that the paints were from China and you were purchasing art supplies from, the places that one purchases art supplies for when stocking their shelves. When you began to look at these conventional artists’ paints, did you find anything surprising or what is the challenge with the traditional conventional artist’s paints that you’re finding on shelves?

[00:23:50] Anong Beam: So this was funny to get to this point where I was spending all of this time to create this paint. And it was so physical. It was so tangible. I was making this paint from these natural materials. And then when it came time to like to nest them and nestle them into a vessel or a container, all the containers are plastic and all of the boxes were, you know, it was just really, really ubiquitous in the market that art supplies are in plastic.

Plastic boxes, plastic sleeves, plastic mailing. And then I started as e-commerce. So all of the default packings is really plastic. And then this is where kind of having a, having a relationship. A lot of people, conscientious people through Instagram really affected me because I got to have that dialogue about materials and what I was doing with a wider audience.

And I remember somebody messaging me, Hey, I love what you’re doing. Do you think you could ever make a tape? And I remember getting that and it was the same feeling as like the art supply question, right? Like, do you make the paint? Make paint. That’s crazy. And, and I heard her say, oh, could you make tape? Because the most tape is just plastic. Isn’t it. And I was like, oh yeah, it is, I guess. And that’s when I started really looking more at like the things, the choices I was making as an e-commerce business and the packaging that we were using. And I really, again, got to look back to my mom and I thought about how she wrapped sandwiches. and use wax paper. she was in her twenties in the sixties, and she was part of the anti-Vietnam war movement. She immigrated to Canada in 1967 to protest the Vietnam war. She didn’t want to pay taxes to the industrial-military complex. You could tell, she talked about this alot. And she was always telling me stuff like, okay, well don’t use tinfoil Alcan? They made napalm!

And she would say, well, oh, plastic wrap? No! Like there was no plastic wrap in my house. I never learned how to use cling wrap until I was like, in my thirties. I couldn’t really ever cling wrap anything properly. So she really brought those more strident values of being responsible with your, your choices and personal ethical responsibility.

[00:26:46] Jennifer Chua: How are your paints packaged? What’s your packaging look like?

[00:26:51] Anong Beam: Our packaging is continually evolving to meet our needs and the customer’s needs. And the, now that we’ve actually, we’ve really grown and developed quite a lot the past few years. So we manufactured larger volumes of paint. And, um, now you’ll find our paints wrapped either in a sheet of beeswax cotton.

This is actually an interesting evolution I’m doing right now. This was the first idea that instead of a plastic cap pan that paint would go inside a piece of wax canvas, and that would be folded in a certain way and have a tie. So that was the first thing. And this struck such a chord with people.

Really. It was really amazing to me, how well received this idea. And then moving forward to now where changing this idea a bit to be the same structure. But what happened was, is we started doing business with indigo, indigo books and music, which is a big chain here in Canada. And one of the requirements to work with them is that you have to sign an affidavit attesting to the sourcing of cotton. So there’s this whole political situation in China and this kind of alerted me to that because it was not on my radar at all. And then I found that it was really. I could say yes. And I did say yes. Um, I agreed to that, but I also found that it is practically impossible to really be sure, or you could ask and people would say, but I wasn’t satisfied with my degree of understanding of the supply chain of cotton.

And then I started kind of thinking about, well, the. The cost of cotton, fresh cotton, new cotton is, is quite high as far as why don’t use land use and pesticides. So

we’re shifting now to paper and it’s done in the same way. It’s the same structure, the same look, but instead of a square of cotton with wax.

It’s a handmade paper and the handmade paper is made out of cotton. So it’s still a hundred percent cotton, but now the cotton comes from St. Alma preparatory in Montreal, and they obtain skids of offcuts from the textile industry. So when a fabric, when a t-shirt company, Has all the little off-cuts that can’t be used, they get bundled up into a big skids of fabric.

Those offcuts get repurposed and sent to Saint-Armand where they use the cotton linen, all the different fabrics, and they turn that into artists’ paper. So I’m really, really excited to be, changing again. It was also, I had a lot of nerves about telling people because I didn’t want to like throw a bunch of shade on cotton users. Right? Like, I’m not saying it’s bad to use cotton. I am also using beeswax, I, became a beekeeper in the past few years and I became aware of more of how. How or beeswax is like how little beeswax bees actually make, when they do honey, they make so much more honey or relatively very small amounts of beeswax.

And we had had a really difficult year. I lost a lot of beehives, it’s been challenging. I had a tough time talking with our suppliers of beeswax and kind of hearing them trying to make an order for the same amount as last year. And they were really like, I don’t know. And there was a lot of stress there, so I still did reorder. We still do use beeswax, but we’re trying to, we’re just trying to diversify as far as different ways that we can make so that we can adjust. And, uh, without saying using beeswax is bad. We just want to have a lot of different tools, especially with supply chains in the past year and what that looks like

________

[00:31:38] Jennifer Chua: When you go on to Indigo’s website and you look for your products, you see these beautiful wood pallets. Can you explain what that is and how you came up with the idea to use wood?

[00:31:50] Anong Beam: So this whole process of my leaving to my mother’s house with the kids and, reimagining life, and during that time I meet my boyfriend and we actually go on our first date to a quarry. Look at, to look at rocks and things, and he runs a forestry operation. So he gives me a space to develop my business. he gives me a garage, 16 by 20 a small car garage, he clears it out and he says, okay, go ahead. And so I’m making paint inside of like in this quiet spot, in the middle of a working forestry operation. So there are massive machines rolling past me every day, six-foot-tall tires going by the window, excavators, like large machines.

And along with that, when the hum of the work is done, then large stacks of, wood that go to keep people’s houses, fire, fuelwood, different wood products. And I find myself so attracted to all of the offcuts and all of the small pieces, the sideways cut pieces, things that just end up, uh, different into the waste stream.

So I ended up, um, Collecting these going around the yard after hours and collecting all the offcut pieces. And then I experiment with different ways that I can put them in offcuts. And eventually, it becomes an agreed-on partnership between our two businesses. And now I subcontract wood production to Corbiere Lumber. Which is owned by my boyfriend. And his company, they produce all of our pallets out of their off-cuts from that forestry business. So it’s been really a really rewarding fight because it’s, it’s fun to work with people who are really passionate about their materials. They’re really passionate about their product and creative enough to look at the waste stream.

I also watched you on Instagram live a little while ago, which was great. You have a really great connection to your community. And you were speaking about language, changing the language on your new packaging.

When I started my business, It was really important to me to name all of the paints in my language, which is Ojibwe. My dad went to a residential school at the Spanish school for boys and he’s a survivor, experienced a lot of abuse. And also people say lost their language like that. He lost his language. It sounds so passive. Like you misplaced it on a walk and. For a child to speak a language and go be forced to go somewhere, to be reconditioned, to have that bridge or moved from them that they are so afraid and fearful that they cannot speak it. Even later in adults, there’s so much abuse and trauma there, but anyway, language initiatives, I’ve have been really close to my heart.

And one of the reasons why I wanted it to use the language is because it’s hard to encounter it anywhere. English is the dominant, it’s the dominant language of our times, and it’s really, it’s prevalent everywhere. And I wanted to give our language a spot to be to be first. So all of our labels will be labelled with the color name, you know, in Ojibwe first, and then the English name underneath. And that was part of the shift to the paper wrappers because it enabled us instead of using wax cloth ties to use water, activated paper, tape printed labels, to include a lot more information per item.

[00:36:14] Jennifer Chua: Do you have a favourite color name?

[00:36:18] Anong Beam: It, it changes all the time. I’m a painter too. So my favourite painting, it’s always whatever the last one was. And I just laugh about that because I’ll start another one. And then when I think, oh, that’s my favourite painting. Fast forward six months. Well, this is my favourite and it’s kind of like that with colour names too. My most recent favourite is one of our most recent colours wet grizzly.

[00:36:47] Jennifer Chua: So it’s clear that tradition is important to you with putting Ojibwe on the packaging. You’re honouring your father’s legacy, really with the paint-making process, you are showing your children the merits of entrepreneurship, you are creating like low waste products. Really? You’re doing a lot in terms of sustainability. What part of all of the impact that you’re making means the most to you? Really

[00:37:14] Anong Beam: In a personal enjoyment level, I, I really enjoy, uh, approaching the waste stream and finding possibilities. I actually some of the key ingredients that we use in all of the paints are reclaimed from the waste stream of quarries. And there’s like an indigenous quarry on the west end of Manitoulin that captures different things that are actually hazardous in their workflow because they get wet and slippery, but they capture that moves them out of the way for us. Being able to interact with industry in that way, especially as, as a woman, mom, you walk into the place with all the big machines and talk to people and materials and to have conversations like that, that’s been really enjoyable, but also because I’m being offered a job at a pivotal moment in my life, gave me such stability. It’s really important to me and be able to offer employment to people who need flexible, flexible employment, especially here in M’Chigeeng. We are on Manitoulin island. There aren’t just a lot of jobs and most jobs are really heavy heavy industry or construction. They’re not really ideal for working moms or single moms. People with disabilities. So I’m happy to, to fill in there and, and design it. Like, I didn’t really realize it at the time, but being a very flexible employer has meant that we we’ve been able to withstand the pandemic, I think in better shape than other companies that have more rigid employment. So we’ve split our production over four locations. So having it split like that meant that everybody could have observed that corporate protocols and feel safe about going to work where they were working. It also meant that, uh, a lot of our in who had childcare issues that arise out of the pandemic, we’re able to flex the times that they came into different locations to work. So it’s been, it’s been good like that. I want to, I want to be able to grow our company that way to be able to be a stronger employer

[00:39:55] Jennifer Chua: When you’re looking back at all of the impacts that you’ve created, and when you’re looking around you and seeing other brands that are doing really interesting things with waste, for example, how hopeful are you for the future?

[00:40:11] Anong Beam: I am really hopeful for the future. I think, um, I think part of this was the fact that I had young kids. At this juncture and they’re coming back from school with concerns about the environment. Concerns about global warming and it’s has been really great to me to be able to tell them this is what we’re doing about it in our corner. We’re responsible for making things, and these are our choices and we can be responsible down to this, this, minute level.

And we can look for other companies who are that responsible and choose that. That definitely comes from my mom. So being able to share that with my kids and seeing them make choices like that and feel empowered to be conscious consumers.

It’s my absolute joy to design and imagine new ways of presenting our product. But the core strength of it is the fact that, uh, our main goal is to make the best paint in the world and in terms of performance and in terms of its respect for the health of our users and people who try our product, their children. Then the environment, that it’s responsible, but the bottom line is when you use our paint, we want you to be really blown away. Oh, that blue, there is so much blue in that blue. So I’m always working on recipes to find different ways to compact and get bluer in the blue also make sure that it really outperforms.

[00:42:06] Jennifer Chua: If you want to learn more about Anong and her plastic-free paints handcrafted from harvested pigments and wildflower, honey. Visit beampaints.com. Looking to support a hundred percent indigenous-owned business? You can purchase Anong’s beautifully vibrant paint stones direct or through independent art supply stores across Canada. You can follow along with Anong and be inspired by a life full of colour on Facebook or Instagram at beam paints.

In today’s episode, we chat with Courtney Stewart from The Good Kiind. We explore why Courtney shut down her reusable silicone label business at the height of success to start a brand new company, and learn what lessons she learned from her first go at entrepreneurship. We discover why she decided to launch her new business with plastic-free, litterless lunch options, how the community supported her when an established brand launched a similar product, why you shouldn’t rush out to buy her product if you have a lunch box already, and how she’s planning to use the Good Kiind to create meaningful change.

If you want to learn more about Courtney and her endlessly reusable mealtime essentials for families on-the-go visit thegoodkiind.com. Looking for litter-proof lunch solutions for back to school? They are available to order now. You can follow along with Courtney on her mission to helping you sustainably and mindfully tackle life with littles on Facebook or Instagram.

Links from this episode

• You Can Help Keep 540 Plastic Sandwich Bags Out of the Ocean With One Swap
• Zero Waste Canada

Episode Transcript

 

Jennifer Myers Chua: It’s back-to-school season already. And in retail, this is a really big deal. In mid to late summer, millions of parents begin stocking up on school essentials, things like book bags, lunch boxes, lunch bags, pencils, and other supplies. And everything needs to be labelled with the child’s name. Which is how I came across Nomi & Sibs. A brand that sold multi-purpose silicone labels to stretch over water bottles, snack, tins, pencil cases. Colorful fun, endlessly reusable. I labelled all of our family’s things and bought more as gifts.

And they were definitely popular. Nomi & Sibs had a strong social media following. I’d see them in the school yard. And so I was incredibly surprised when the founder Courtney announced that they’d be shutting down. Sales were strong, support for women-owned and black-owned businesses had never been stronger. Why this choice?

And I couldn’t help, but think about Instagram. See late in 2019, One of the large Canadian label brands had launched their new product. This is a brand started by a mom of five and it ended up growing and being sold to a major international corporation. So this brands, personalized bottle bands, as they called them were pretty much indistinguishable from Nomi & Sibs. Side-by-side it was hard to see a difference. And The mom community also saw this and voiced this loudly in the comment section. I assumed that something was going on here with this behind the scenes. And we’ll go more into this in a bit.

Shortly after receiving my last order of the Nomi & Sibs labels, the site went down to re-emerge this summer as The Good Kiind. And I have to admit that I am even more excited about Courtney’s new venture.

The first product with The Good Kiind is the B.I.G. It’s the box and go. A stainless steel lunchbox, safe, and will last for years. It’s made from really high quality materials and it’s completely plastic free. Made so that little one can really lug it around for all of elementary. So you don’t have to buy a new box each fall. And since the average family in north America is using hundreds of single use plastic sandwich bags and plastic wrappers a year, all which head into landfill. This is an impactful switch.

I asked Courtney about that competitor. And if this was the reason for the change, but she has a positive view on the situation. Commenting on the tremendous support that she received from her customers and how much this gave her the confidence to move forward with a new idea. A brand that’s really rooted in her own ideas of living a low waste life. And for the competition. Courtney’s always been really athletic. And so she views business. Like she does athletics. She’s ready to take on the challenge.

Courtney Stewart: Yeah, I grew up playing sports all my life. And so you see a lot of athletes turn into entrepreneurs. It’s that like, go get her, gotta win sort of, attitude inside that never really leaves you when you’re done sports. So, I actually played basketball in university. A lot of people don’t know that about me. I played division one basketball in Ohio. So, and I studied business.

Jennifer Myers Chua: Courtney started her career in corporate America. She worked for really large companies and she considers this period to be vital training for what she decided to do afterwards. After starting her family, Courtney wanted to explore doing her own thing rather than working for somebody else. And she wanted to start a business that aligned with her values, but she wasn’t exactly sure what that could look like. She came across an idea for personalized labels for drinkware. The concept was to be able to use one label from baby bottle to sippy cup, to thermos, reusing that one label across multiple stages. It was the idea of creating something endlessly reusable that was so appealing. She couldn’t find anything similar available in Canada. So she set out to work, looking into materials and manufacturers.

Courtney Stewart: I’d already started myself on that journey of, products that are a little bit better, a little bit better for the environment, definitely better for us into our home. So started there and did that for a few years, but quickly realized before the three years that you know, personalized business as you scale up is very challenging. The challenges were very difficult to overcome.

Jennifer Myers Chua: Courtney began to run into quality control issues with her manufacturing partner. And she tried to take that personalization piece into house. But the laser engraving was proving to be a huge challenge and getting this into retail was proving to be a huge challenge. And then she had to rely on fulfillment centers in Canada and the us, which also wasn’t working out. Maybe this could have been overcome. Courtney was beginning to see it as a sign that it was time to try something else.

Courtney Stewart: Unfortunately we were very busy and at those times too, and being a small business I don’t think we were a huge priority for them. And There were just a lot of issues, a lot of error, a lot of quality control. And it ultimately solidified what I had already been feeling. And then we wrapped up the business, we wrapped up we’re calling it a pivot, but we wrapped up the labels of any personalized products. about six months ago in December, so, started the new year fresh and been working on The Good Kiind ever since.

Jennifer Myers Chua: Have there been any really significant events in your life that have shaped how you see the world and how you see the world this way?

Courtney Stewart: My father passed away when I was 13 and I feel like, as a dad, he was just like robbed right of so many years with his kids and his family. And I think that’s something that has stuck with me. To think, like, what could he have done? What could, what impact could he have made in those years that he, lost and it, I think it makes me as a parent really want to, leave a legacy of some kind, like, be impactful in some way. I don’t want to just live. I want to live with purpose and I want to have it like, meaning I want, when somebody, says my name or, even my kids. And they’re like, oh, her mom, recycling lady, or, that lady who like, she’s trying to inspire, people to do the right thing. Like that’s important to me. Because I, I think it makes you feel really good to, to bring out the goodness in people. And it’s something that is very selfless to do. But I think if there

was

something that I think about often, I think about, my dad and his time lost and the impact that he, could have continued making or what the things he could have gotten into that, what he was passionate about that could have, you know, helped shape the future. I feel like we’re here for a reason and it’s an unselfish reason. It’s, it’s beyond, ourselves, it’s gotta have a purpose and it’s got to impact others.

Jennifer Myers Chua: What exactly is the good kind. What are your products? And what are you all about?

Courtney Stewart: The Good Kiind from a product standpoint is an accessible line of kind of safe plastic-free high-end premium, good quality planet friendly mealtime solutions. Essentials for families. And the whole idea behind it is this is what I practice in my life is when you know, better through education and learning and listening to people you want to do better, I at least want to do better. So that’s really what I want to inspire. And hopefully through, our products and our content and how we can be out there in front of people we want to inspire people to live with purpose, choose products that are better for you, but better for the planet, better for your kids and your families. And essentially, that’s kind of like embodying the good kind you’re making The Good Kiinds of decisions, you’re being The Good Kiind of person and doing the things that like make you feel good that you do, even when nobody’s watching, all of these things tied into one, we’re still working out the messaging, but it’s a good kind of feeling, really like the things that you do that really make you feel good because, you did the right thing. It was a message. And we’re doing that. The avenue is through our product.

Jennifer Myers Chua: What was your thought path if you had this idea for maybe. More sustainable products or products that are better for your family. Why did you start with lunch?

Courtney Stewart: I think this is the athlete in me, the timing of the year when we decided to pivot and the season I really wanted to hit, this is a strategic business. Was definitely back to school. I felt like we had that audience already, that we had a back-to-school product that was important prior to previously. So I felt like it was a good fit. you know, Looking back, it was definitely very rushed. Definitely one thing I’ve learned as an entrepreneur is just like having goals and, trying to push it, push it. It’s great. But sometimes you just need to take your time with things. And so I’m definitely learning that, but that’s really why we wanted to drive this whole out of the home, on the go part of the line first. And then the goal will be to move into at-home solutions within the next probably 12 months.

Jennifer Myers Chua: With little ones at home. I’m assuming that you’ve gone through a number of lunchboxes. So what were the issues with the lunchboxes that you’ve seen already like what kind of changes are you trying to make with your new product?

Courtney Stewart: We’re not the first to come up with a similar concept, in terms of a lunchbox that’s attached where, you’ve got all the options, the way little kids, like to see it when they open up a lunchbox when they’re at school. But we did see some things that need to be changed. And so, one of the things that were pain points for parents who were using, similar style, bento boxes, some plastic, some stainless, somewhat not but hands down, number one thing that we heard complaint, was it leaking and leaking in terms of not necessarily just that like the lid, the leaking inside. So, when they would open it, the hummus would be uh, it’s already dipped for you, you know, things like that. And when it comes to your kids, God love them, but they might not want to eat that if they see soggy crackers. So I always want to set my kids up for success.

So I want to set them up so that when they open that lunch, they’re enticed to eat it. They’ve got a lot of options that are still the way they were when we pack that lunch. And so I really wanted to go off of that pain point and make something better. Like I said, we’re not the first stainless steel. We’re not the first bento box, but I feel like we’ve made some really good improvements. And in that way, with adding that silicone seal on the lid that, it does not allow anything to move around inside. So when those kids are shuffling and running to their school bus or from the school bus and whatnot, nothing’s moving. So parents can be confident that when they opened that lunch box, hopefully there’ll be excited to see what they what’s inside.

Jennifer Myers Chua: We’ve had school shutdowns here for over a year and a half. And. I only started, revisiting our lunchbox solutions for summer camp lately and was surprised to see that one of the lunchboxes that we use is a plastic lunchbox with a silicone interior. And it was noticing that the silicone was kind of coming back. And when I did some Googling. There are known issues with some of these plastic bento boxes and mold, which I found. Not only surprising. But i found it really alarming

Courtney Stewart: whenever things can get in those cracks. Right? It’s hard whether it, honestly, if it’s plastic or stainless, of course, like, I feel like stainless, you can get a better clean in there, you can put it in the dishwasher and nothing’s going to change shape. And our silicone seal, it comes off so that you can clean in there, every night, if you want or weekly, whatever. Those nooks and crannies that you can’t get to, sometimes they tend to leave mold. And, we’re talking about eliminating toxins through, better materials of like food plates and containers. And then, potentially there’s mold hidden in the crevices of those containers. I think that’s this through education. I remember one time I was I were very popular brand water bottles, stainless water bottle. They had it, it was a plastic. And unless you popped like the center of the lid out, you never would see, but inside, there was exactly where the kids are having taken a drink from. It was garbage in there. And so you really had to know to like, get that straw cleaning, stick in there and really clean because we’re, we’re giving them the great products to be using and what not, but, the toxins are there and the mold and everything, like that’s just as harmful or if not worse. So, it, it’s important to be able to have a solution that, can easily in clean those things away and access potential nooks and crannies. Very easy.

Jennifer Myers Chua: I do want to talk a little bit more about materials in your choices there, but I’d like to go further backwards into your life. Maybe before the good kind maybe before your first business but why is sustainability or why is going plastic free so important to you? Do you have a moment that stands out where you had this shift and when you decided you wanted to make change in this way?

Courtney Stewart: I think it was definitely over time. It had been, a journey that I would go in, come out of. But after having kids and just, shifting my mind in general to, know better and, and do better and everything, I, when, you know, when you have kids, it’s just about, they’re looking up to you, I’m responsible for this human, right. And I want to put out the best human I can. And so I want to embody and be a really good example for my kids. And, what better way to do that? Then, in the kitchen, doing the right thing for, for our home and for, our health and nutrition, but also for beyond that, unselfishly for the planet and for the world.

And so, choosing reusable products limiting containers and packaging and things like that, it all just over time, and I definitely in the last six years has become so important to me. And I hope to have made some change, even in my community. I’m like a big advocate for recycling. So I’m always encouraging. We have like little recycling competitions if you can only put out one black garbage bag, A week and like fill your recycling bins because it’s the way it should be really. And so, we’ve got people and got friends involved in our like gold box competitions with recycling and things like that. It’s something that it matters to me. And I can truly tell you that if I see somebody put like a plastic water bottle, which I don’t know why people use those anyway, but a single use water bottle in the garbage, it literally, I cringe. Like there’s something, it bothers me so much. And I think that’s just the person I become, I’m thinking about our footprint, what we’re doing, and what’s going to affect our kids and my grandkids when I’m not here. So I’ve got to, I’ve got to do something now. And I feel like this is what I can do now to help that. So, and hopefully encourage others around me to do the same.

I have not bought Ziploc bags in years. It was a goal of mine, I think by the end of 2019 to have like a plastic free kitchen. So we don’t have any plastic cups or plastic dishware, you know, all that trendy, the colorful stuff, the kids always want to go get it. But we’ve really moved away and obviously it’s caused me a lot of glass dishes over the years and cups. But hopefully our line we’ll fill that in soon, but yeah, I have a plastic free kitchen, so everything everything that our food touches is either stainless or glass. So something I’m very proud of. It’s hard to do though. It’s hard and you got to work it out. But I’ve made sure when people come to my house with like a plastic container with food, I just send them back home. Like I can’t have plastic in my house.

Jennifer Myers Chua: You were working on closing your first business. What’s the story of coming up with the idea for this new business and how did you move this forward into something like create an actual product?

Courtney Stewart: I actually had always, when we thought about line extensions and what’s next with Nomi & Sibs my previous business, the labels, we thought, okay, we have the option to go into this personalization route or, we have a sustainable label. Maybe we can go on the sustainable products route. So this is always been in, circling in the back of my head. I think I was so deep and swallowed in the production of the labels and the complexity of the production of the product that I didn’t have the time to really think it through and to come up with a really good plan. When your back’s against the wall and things are really going badly, you’re forced to do that very quickly. But so I think the sustainable products was always in my, in the wheelhouse where it was working, but I wanted to add that personalization at that personalized touch to it. That was going to be our kind of point of differentiation. And then I we found other ways to do that because I knew personalization was not the avenue I wanted to go in anymore. So, it was something that I had been thinking about.

I felt like the changes we wanted to make to current products that were out there were enough. And I think hit the pain points that that customers were experiencing. It was something I was looking for. And so it felt really natural. I think my audience I think we had a mix of, modern moms wanting different types of products, but we also had moms who were a little bit more cautious about their spend and conscious and in terms of sustainable and reusable products. So. There was a good fit for our current audience. So it pivoted an idea that had already existed. But I felt like we needed a, more of a change. I wanted to change the name. I wanted to do some other things too. And change the, really the whole mission behind the brand and make it more of like a mission driven brand. And, and that’s the goal?

Jennifer Myers Chua: In terms of retail too. I think if anyone is listening to this with the idea of starting a brand, that’s based on personalization. That’s really difficult. If you want to then sell in retail stores, like you can think of those key chains at any tourist shop with names on it. My name is very easy to find. But anyone with a more unique name? He doesn’t have that option. And a retailer is not going to want to purchase something with a name that is maybe. Sold once every two years like it’s just not good business so personalization in terms of retail can be really really challenging

Courtney Stewart: It’s very hard, and we tried to go down that that avenue so many hours and months, like, planning some kind of retail strategy with hopes to get them as a, DTC compete customer in the end, but a lot of complexities and ordering and getting names and all that stuff at the retail level.

It, it was just at the end of the day, it was a business that presented a lot of challenges throughout the entire process. If somebody came to me and said, I’ve had people ask actually very disappointed that we stopped with the labels and say to me, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. Don’t worry. That’s amazing. But at the same time I’m thinking and myself, you just have no idea. And I think also too, because that wasn’t an area where I was an expert in and being a mom of two little kids and in the situation I’m in with you, my husband, and he’s got very long hours of work.

He puts in every single day, not having much help there. I didn’t have the time to be going and learning new skillsets. I knew I already brought skillsets that I could contribute to a business and, learning those other things about printers and graphics and all that stuff. It wasn’t right for me at the time. I felt very strongly about stopping, but if you’re a creator and you could see yourself on Etsy, and if that’s what you’re passionate about, I would not say don’t do it. I would just say, think it through in terms of scaling and what you want long term because it’s challenging personalization definitely is challenging.

Jennifer Myers Chua: I’ve been following your business for years, your first business. And another thing that you ran into that I’m assuming was a huge challenge. And I have seen this so many times with other small businesses. Is that at some point a larger Canadian company put out a product that was remarkably similar to yours. Like almost indistinguishable. And. I know that must’ve been a big challenge. And it’s something that small business owners face a lot. I was wondering if you were willing to comment on that situation. And did it have any impact on the decision to pivot into a new business?

Courtney Stewart: It definitely did not have an impact to pivot. I think if anything I felt like we got a lot of really great support from customers. Like people who hadn’t even bought the product, our product before just wanting to support. Cause they were, it was relatable in terms of, a mother just trying to, start something new or, make a living sort of thing. And so I felt people felt They want to support that about good for them to do so. So I think if anything, it fueled it helped us. It definitely, for me that owner at that business, she was a mom she’s led a lot of kids. And I know in the early days of that business, it was a hard struggle and, to see that being done it rubbed me the wrong way as an entrepreneur. And as in the position I was in, but at the same time, that’s business, it’s, it sucks. And I was mad. I was angry. And I think you maybe could have done something differently, but I think that in, in hindsight it’s business and I don’t think it’s a big part of their business. I might be wrong, but I don’t think so. But. Those are the things that you’re going to have to face, and I’ll have to face this with this product as well. Cause there are other international brands or us based brands that are doing similar things. I hope that I’m doing it a little bit differently.

Our message and our mission and the community we want to create is a little bit more unique. And so that will help us stand out. But, there are bigger brands with bigger, deeper pockets that can come in and, they can make their way. So those are the things that we’re always going to have to deal with. If anything, I think that situation prepared me for probably what’s to come and they will never stop coming. But as an entrepreneur, it didn’t make me want to give up. It made me want to show that we can move past this and you can get past this. So any, aspiring entrepreneur, anybody who’s been presented with challenges of people within a region or a community or something, doing something similar, find a way to be different and continue setting yourself apart as a business. And, you can get through it.

Jennifer Myers Chua: Another thing that surprised me about that situation was that generally in terms of the Canadian entrepreneur community, specifically the woman entrepreneurs. They’re very supportive and very mindful. Of collaboration. I remember that with Nomi and sieves, you did a partnership with Nicks and some Canadian influencers. And I’m wondering how that came to be and is there anything that you learned from that experience that’s going to help you building your new business?

Courtney Stewart: Absolutely. So, yes, that was a collaboration with Knix and the Bird’s papaya. And Tisch jewelry was also part of it. Actually, Sarah, we in the atilier gift bag and she was a speaker, so she received our product. And then she did a unsolicited, shout out thanking us for that gift. Cause they were personalized. They had her children’s names on the labels and whatnot. And so she did that and we saw a huge lift that was wonderful. And then organically, we would keep in touch, I would engage with her and since social media and, Like she was really making a place in the last year. When things were happening with the black lives matter movement, and if you follow Sarah Landry, I feel like she’s a, when I know better, I want to do better kind of person she’s, she’s trying, sometimes too much to be something for everybody, but she’s very inclusive. I feel like her heart is there. You see her growth over the last couple of years, so it happened organically with us kind of chatting during those times. And then when I got the email from Knix it was at a time where, it was a low point in terms of, what was I going to do? We are having so many issues with production and everything. And so, Maintain your relationships as much as you can. I know it’s difficult, but networking is very important. And even maintaining connections and contact, you never know how those things are gonna, help you and uplift you in your business and in life, in the future. And so I think that’s a huge learning. I think going through the collaboration process was really great too. Working back and in, in communication with that corporate environment that I had been out of for so long and seeing how that works and I think it’s totally changed as well. But it was a great experience.

I hadn’t totally made the decision that at the end of that year, we’re gonna be wrapping up the labels. But I feel like looking back, it was a really nice exit from that, from that business. We wrapped up a couple months later and it was a great send off. We had our best year in terms of sales and, so our exposure was up there. We got shout outs from other top influencers. It was a gift, a little gift send off of Nomi and sibs.

Jennifer Myers Chua: So when you went to develop your new product line, can you talk to me a little bit about finding a manufacturer or what kind of materials you chose? I’d love to explore how you made those decisions.

Courtney Stewart: In looking at developing these products for the past, year and a half we had already been in conversations with partner manufacturers that we’ve worked with at the labels who are using premium, either FDA approved or the LFG B approved tested materials as far as our silicone products are concerned. And so they had connections with with other manufacturer on the stainless side that kind of helped linked, linked us together, and they were able to even work together. And so that was definitely beneficial because going through that manufacturing hunt surgery per manufacturer is very difficult because. The way that, they may come off and they may perceive to be can be very different from, what is actually going on. And it was a hard time to do this because we couldn’t go over there and we do manufacture in China. So we can’t go over there. We can’t travel. So we really put our trust in our silicone label manufacturers to help lead us in that direction and work with that new manufacturer to create the lunchbox.

we developed a really good relationship with our label manufacturer over the last few years and felt confident in that. We could trust them and we’ve been very happy, very lucky now all situations work out that way. But but at some point you kinda, you gotta have some trust.

Jennifer Myers Chua: I took a look at your website in the product descriptions of the new lunch boxes, which are made of stainless steel. And some of your new messaging and it’s very much focused on non-toxic rather than being focused on those terms that we’re seeing now all the time, like BPA free, that if you’ve been listening to this podcast, you know, generally don’t mean much because everyone’s just slapping that on a label now these days, whether it’s true or not. About that messaging. Are there any insights into how you’re communicating the safety and health benefits of your products?

Courtney Stewart: It kills me when people say BPA free and it’s been, and now it’s used as a marketing, a marketing thing. So parents are proceeded to think that, oh, it’s BPA free. And that’s the headline it’s BPA free, unfortunately, and it’s not the parents’ fault or anybody else’s, but that’s one of hundreds of toxins or chemicals that are used in these products. And so to eliminate that great, that’s the one that they’ve taken out, but there are still others and in plastics. And even honestly, there are different grades of stainless as well. And so we are using a 3 0 4 grade stainless steel, which is a premium approved for food contact level, stainless steel, and it’s different from what you would find, at a, $1 store, $2 store, something like that. That’s a different kind of stainless steel. It’s not the same. People don’t, they don’t see that. They see a product that kind of looks similar. A stainless steel water bottle, you get the dollar. So it was very different than when they buy from a brand. That has put the research in and put the education, then the testing, and gone through those steps to ensure that they’re offering a high quality, healthy, safe product into the marketplace. And so, that’s something that’s really important to me if I’m not going to use it in my own family, if I’m not willing to expose my own children to it, I would never, introduce it to the marketplace. I’m very strict with what we bring into our house. So, it was important if there was a best, we were gonna bring it into this product and this whole line really

Jennifer Myers Chua: It’s such a challenge for us as consumers, as people who are trying to make better choices when it comes to. Things like that, the things that may be toxic and that inconsistent labeling is part of the challenge. A couple episodes back. We met with Emma Rohmann who’s a toxic expert. And she talked about how substitutions are happening. So if there’s a regulation and they take something out like BPA they’re removing BPA, they’re replacing it with something else. That they have waiting. That may just be just as dangerous, but it’s currently not something that we’re immediately aware of and maybe it’s something that’s not currently illegal or whatnot. It’s a real challenge and i appreciate that you’re going for the broad stroke of non-toxic and you’re actually doing all you can to make sure that is true. i appreciate that

Courtney Stewart: I feel like. That’s the way that BPA free has been thrown around on packaging and labels. It’s actually very sad. It’s very disappointing. We don’t put BPA free. I think there’s an assumption. We’re saying no toxins right? Here, platinum. The highest levels of, pure silicone, no fillers, no additives, none of that stuff. And I think that BPA free thing is thrown around to it’s that extra. Oh, okay. It’s an extra kind of notch of approval that a parent will take in and feel like they they’re confident and, in, in that product and in some ways they are, in some ways it’s wonderful, like, and it works out there.

It’s BPA free, which is great. It’s also, it doesn’t have other toxins, but in a lot of cases, you’re right. It’s just the BPA that they pulled out and they’ve said student was something else. And so something cheaper, another filler and whatnot. And it it’s, I feel like it’s, it’s unfair to parents in the marketplace because goodness, we have so many things that we’re trying to do well.

And, trying to raise these good humans and we’re putting our faith and, to these labels and packaging and things like that and want to be able to trust. And, a lot of the times we’re getting duped by these brands and manufacturers. Unfortunately,

Jennifer Myers Chua: Have you come across anything in your research about the environmental impact of our lunch packing habits? I guess we’re not even a brown paper bag, lunch culture anymore. We’re more like a Ziploc bag or a sandwich bag. Did you find anything surprising?

Courtney Stewart: I can’t even think of it, but it’s something like like 30 million lunch bags, like Ziploc bags are used in a year or something. It’s more than that because it would be more than that, I’ve got to find the number, but the amount of plastic single use Ziploc type bags that are used and then thrown out in the impact that has is staggering is absolutely staggering. So when you think of that, in terms of all the different things that you put in a lunch I find that when you have something like a. A lunchbox that has, different sections, maybe as a parent, instead of buying the yogurt in, 30 individual containers, maybe we just buy the one container and you scoop it from there.

So even making a simple swap like that, it’s impactful. Imagine everybody doing that, getting that bulk tub. And so instead of sending those single ones all the time, I really want to get through to people that it doesn’t have to be these huge shifts in your life. It can just be, one little thing that when you think about it, in terms of everybody doing one little thing, the impact is ginormous. And so, the numbers on even the single. Plastic bags and things like that. It’s staggering. Staggering. It makes you, you definitely think twice we put things in the garbage and filling up that garbage every week. Yeah, it’s staggering.

Jennifer Myers Chua: One of my favorite questions to ask founders about looking back at this moment that you’re in right now. I love to ask. If there was a moment. Where you said, Hey, people are responding to this. I know this is going to happen. Have you hit that moment yet?

Courtney Stewart: We sent off the labels with a bang, I felt really good. I felt confident about whatever I decide to do. I did feel really confident. And as much as I believe like this is going to work, I think the goals that I’ve set and the things that I want to do and, the impact I want to make it has to work, it has to work, but I’m not going to lie Jenn. Like there are days where, as an entrepreneur, like the highs are so high and literally the lows are garbage, low. Like they are landfill garbage, low. That’s very hard. And trying to navigate those ups and downs, while trying to be everything in your business, to everyone who needs you in your business and outside of your business and, in your personal life, it’s hard. So, I don’t have doubts that this is going to be great. I think, yeah. It’s getting there and staying in a clear mental state because the roller coaster of entrepreneurship, it can, it gives you turns and twists and you gotta be able to keep it straight, navigate them and keep it straight. So, I think if there’s heart and there’s passion and great products, it might take time, but it will succeed.

I think I I’m used to hard work in terms of growing up and a family filled with athletes and very successful. My, all my siblings are very successful. As an athletic scholarship. I did, I did my power, in, in that way I have this kind of be the best at whatever you’re going to be attitude. So I think the biggest surprise. So yes, working hard and being seasoned for something like this because I’ve been in training mode my whole life. But there’s nothing more, and I don’t know if it was necessarily a surprise but a shocker, in terms of. The commitment that entrepreneurship and having your own business and maybe it was the timing of it along with my tabbing, small kids, the sacrifice, the things that you’re going to have to miss. I think people glamorize entrepreneurship in terms of you run your own business and you come and go, as you want. And it’s great. You show up, half day Friday. and sure you could do that. But the reality of it is that, you’re in your business, in the early days, it’s all the time. Especially as an online e-commerce brand, people are expecting you to get back to them immediately.

And so I think a big shocker was, although I was, trained my whole life to be a very hard worker and to work, tirelessly. This entrepreneurial journey is exhausting. It is, and it will, it tests, it tests you it tests everybody, it tests your whole family, everybody in my family is impacted by it. And so it’s hard. It’s hard. It’s, it’s definitely it harder than I would have even imagined, but, it will push you. It will grow you, it will challenge you in ways that you never thought possible. And for me, I think it’s made me a better person and made me a better parent in a lot of ways. I don’t always think that in the moment, but yeah, the amount of work and time and commitment and the sacrifice and all the things that you miss out on, even your family and, that’s been a big shocker. Very hard.

Jennifer Myers Chua: Do you have any other ways that you’re planning to use this business to support any other kind of change?

Courtney Stewart: We haven’t actually announced this, but we are working on some kind of certification supporting other organizations and we have a few already in in the works, but the goal is going to be like 5% of our proceeds are all going to go to other things, the B certification that ocean movements there’s a few things that are high priorities. And then a couple that we’re determining, what’s the best fit, but definitely want the benefits that we reap in the business in terms of sales and profits, to be able to share that with other organizations that are also trying to do the right thing and other groups and young minority aspiring entrepreneur, things like that, that, it again, that it feels really good to give back when you can. It’s going to be something that that we’ll announce, hopefully by the end of the year, once those things are confirmed, but it’s a must in the business for sure. To be able to give back, especially to groups that are trying to inspire change as well.

Jennifer Myers Chua: And what about other black owned businesses? BIPOC creators. Do you feel that there’s been a shift in the marketplace? Like, do you feel that people are using their dollars to support maybe businesses owned by marginalized people or anything like that. I’m wondering if you have anything to comment about that shift and if you see anything changing?

Courtney Stewart:  I definitely think that there is a shift, of all the kind of ugly that’s come out of a lot of things recently. I think that there’s also some good and there’s been openings and some big organizations have stepped up in big ways, to help support BIPOC minority, underserved groups, and entrepreneurship. There’s definitely been a shift and I think consumers are more educated now than ever to kind of search around, search around for options. And, I think people are dedicated to supporting small businesses, supporting local businesses and, That includes, BIPOC owned businesses. I think people deeply care, I really do. You have to feel, you have to think that you have to believe, and I think people want to see good. They want to see change. And in order to see change, you’ve got to support different types of businesses operated by different minorities and, LGBT Black community Brown community, Chinese, everything, all those businesses are just as important. But it’s also finding a way to bring light and expose these businesses in terms of, making them more visible. Yeah, I do see a change. I see a change. I think it’s going to be a slow shift, but I do see a change and I hope that only continues.

Jennifer Myers Chua: So if you’re interested in conscious consumerism and you’ve gotten to this place. What’s a resource that you would recommend to someone who’s starting to explore this? Explore making different choices. Where should they start?

Courtney Stewart: There is a blog called zero waste Canada, I believe . I learned so much from, she has this blog, she has so much education, so much knowledge on her blog and even on her Instagram. People know at the end of the day, when they’re putting that water bottle in the garbage, that it’s not where it should be going, but she shares also the other side of it and the impact and and breaks it down from the impact to also, the impact it has on you and your health and, the toxins. So just a wealth of knowledge. She is somebody who has definitely devoted her life to, living this way and deaf amplifies conscious brands. And so I definitely think that is a great place to start. And then from there, it’ll just spiral because everybody’s following her and everybody who has, those goals in mind for their business or for themselves personally, they’re watching what she’s doing and listening to what she’s saying.

Jennifer Myers Chua: There are people like you and I who are looking to make a difference in our own homes. And then also looking to make a difference in the communities and people are supporting your products. They’re purchasing those, and you’ve seen more support coming for BIPOC creators and women owned businesses. So I’d just like to know with all of that in mind how hopeful are you for the future?

Courtney Stewart: I’m very hopeful for the future. I see. Great things coming. I believe in myself, I believe in people wanting to be better, to do better, to shop better, to support businesses that are trying to do the right thing. you can only want people around you to, other citizens to want, the good for everybody. And so that involves, being a conscious consumer, not overbuying buying, when you need, I even say with our. When you’re in the market for don’t just go buy it. Cause you, you don’t, cause you want it when you’re in the market for, because listen, there’s another box that, has been working for you or, if it’s not then sure if you want to replace it, but that’s just going to end up in the landfill too. And that’s what we don’t want either. I believe, I believe people want to do better. They want to be better. They want to be The Good Kiind.

I’m very passionate. So when I care about something a lot, I come off very pushy, I guess you can call it, very, but it’s just, it’s just coming from a place of just really caring and wanting someone to feel it like, feel the way I feel it. I don’t want to come across and that I’m not perfect even in our home, I’m not, I’ve got work to do. But I wanna, go along this journey with our customers and our community, because it is a journey. It’s not something that you flip the switch and it happens. Small changes can make a big impact.

I think it’s since having kids and, all the toys and the, the unnecessary, packaging and the toys that literally just end up in the garbage it’s painful, it is painful to me. And it really bothers me. I just really tried to limit those things but the amount of mindless consumerism, that’s happening. Then I say mindless. I mean, people are just buying, buying, buying don’t need, like, if you stop and ask yourself, Is it good for me? Is it good for the planet? And do I need this? Do I need this? If you would put down probably 75% of the things that you pick up. So, I wish people would and you would save so much money. You would save so much money. So, I’m hoping that we can help people shift in that direction a little bit by a little bit less use what you have and make the best of it. I’ll tell you one thing. With our manufacturer, our lunch pails, when they’re open in the box, they were supposed to be sleeved with like a, with a paper sleeve and they didn’t, they did it with a plastic sleeve, it was so painful bothered me and it still bothers me, but it doesn’t make sense to go reproduce something else to put it in it and to make all those changes.

But that, and obviously the footprint of something like that is far less, however, it’s something that when you think of it, in terms of McDonald’s and these big brands producing hundreds of thousands weekly, probably, it really adds up. So we’re not perfect either, and we’re trying to do this right. We stumble on the way to, and that, and it was, a miss at the quality control level at our manufacturer. And so, small steps, small steps do better next time.

If you want to learn more about Courtney and her endlessly reusable, mealtime essentials for families on the go visit thegoodkiind.com [kind with two ii] looking for litter proof lunch solutions for back to school, they are available to order now. You can follow along with Courtney on her mission to help you sustainably and mindfully tackle life with littles. On Facebook at thegoodkiind or Instagram at @bethegoodkiind

 

Highlights from episodes 1-10 & Live More Sustainably or Socially Responsible With Tips You Can Take Now.

In today’s episode, we’re going to do something a little different and revisit the last ten episodes, The first 10 episodes of the podcast, focusing on the highlights. The moments where I learned really eye-opening from each guest, but we’ve also included some moments that you, the listeners have commented on were really inspiring. So if you missed an episode or you are just discovering this project? This is a great way to get an overview of what we’ve learned so far and see which episodes you may want to go back to and listen to. I also share some of the actionable tips from the episodes to help make thoughtful choices as a consumer.

if you want to live a more sustainable life, if you want to use your business or buying power to give back, or if you just want to learn about really, really great brands doing really, really interesting things. This is the place to be.

Featuring

• Rebecca Saha from Tiny Toy Co.
• Maran Stern Kubista from My Kindness Calendar
• Kimberlee West from Kids Swag
• Jennifer Myers Chua from Hip Mommies
• April Mackinnon from Anointment
• Lisa Nguyen from Baubles + Soles
• Megan Takeda-Tully from Suppli
• Melita Cyril from Q for Quinn
• Emma Rohmann from Green at Home
• Sheena Russell from Made With Local

Episode Transcript

 

Jennifer Myers Chua: Hello, everyone. And welcome. You’re listening to Cost of Goods Sold with Jennifer Myers Chua episode 11.

On today’s episode, we’re going to do something a little different and revisit the last 10 episodes.  The first 10 episodes of the podcast, focusing on the highlights. These are the moments where I learned something really eye-opening from each guest, but we’ve also included some moments that you, the listeners have commented were really inspiring.  So if you missed an episode or if you’re just discovering this project, this is a great way to get an overview of what we’ve learned so far and see which episodes you may want to go back to and listen.  I’ll also be sharing some of the actionable tips we learned from each episode.  To help make thoughtful choices as a consumer. And if you want to live a more sustainable life, or if you want to use your business or buying power to give back.  Or if you just want to learn about really, really, really great brands doing some really, really, really interesting things. This is the place to be.

 In the very first episode, episode one, we meet Rebecca Saha. She’s a kindergarten teacher and the founder of Tiny Toy Co.  With her business, Rebecca repurposes tiny plastic toys that would otherwise go into landfill into educational kits.

 And part of Rebecca’s mission is to encourage children to do things differently and become a different kind of consumer.  And through her upcycled educational kits and her hands-on educational workshops. Rebecca is taking her background in early childhood education and her commitment to sustainability and doing just that.

In this episode, Rebecca had a lot to share about good intentions, why we need to be mindful as consumers about what we are buying.  And were items like those drive-thru toys will actually go if we donate them. But one thing that Rebecca touched on that really stood out to me. Was about upcyclers.  The businesses that use found or donated materials.  And repurpose those into other goods. And if we can see the benefits of a circular economy, that’s one thing. But in order for this to really work.  We need to purchase these upcycled goods, even if at a higher cost, because donating our unwanted materials isn’t enough.

 Rebecca Saha: There’s this presumption that the way to help these businesses, that the way to help the movement. It is to contribute your, your junk, contribute your stuff. And while that’s important, too, the best way that you can help them movement is to buy the end product until we shop differently. Nothing’s going to change  if you give me your bags and bags of toy junk, and you feel great about the fact that it’s going to be reused instead of going to landfill. That’s amazing. But if you follow that by heading to the toy store or the dollar store  one or the takeout lane and refilling it up, refilling your playroom with the same junk, with the same stuff at the same volume, then then you haven’t interrupted the cycle, you’ve perpetuated the cycle.  And so I think what’s really important for for the movement, the reuse movement, the upcycling movement to succeed is for people to support it  financially at the at the other end.  people need to purchase things differently  as well as contributing to the, to the intake of the circular businesses.

 Jennifer Myers Chua: When working on this episode, I think I was most astonished to learn that McDonald’s gives out 1.5 billion toys in their happy meals each year. And if you’re choosing the book alternative, which is what we’ve done in the past, Note that, that plastic wrapping on the books that contributes to hundreds of tons of plastic a year as  well it’s just a lot of waste.

 And if you want to take action, now, here are some tips from this episode.

1. Be mindful of what tiny breakable plastics you bring into your home. Noting that most can not be recycled.
2. Consider eco-friendly alternatives to loot bags or get the upcycled ones like tiny toy Co.’s ReLoot bag.
3. Look for upcycled alternatives to things that you need for your home. There are some clever and sustainable solutions out there. It may take a little more digging. But you can get things even like countertops made from old chopsticks. 

Maran Stern Kubista was also looking for an alternative to tiny plastic toys or sugary treats. And we meet her in episode two.

Maran wanted to give her children that advent calendar experience without all of the treats. And taking inspiration for moments in her life when she experienced kindness. Maran developed a countdown style calendar focused on giving back.

Her brand is called My Kindness Calendar and her acts of kindness are meaningful, beautiful, even, and you never know the impact that something’s going to make on someone short-term or long-term, it’s powerful. Maran is growing the brand into one that supports children year round with mindfulness activities that cultivate kindness.  And because she says kids are awesome open, and these kinds of activities are particularly important after all they’ve been through over the last couple of years in this pandemic.

Maran Stern-Kubista: “I am always. Aware of the potential of kids. I’m never surprised to see kids doing amazing things because I think that’s the default. Like I think the default is you’re awesome. And you’re amazing. Now, like we, as society and  in our culture, like we just need to enable that. We need to create opportunity for kids to be amazing because they’re so creative and like they’re so intrinsically, there’s so much good there, that it just needs to be fostered and released, and everyone is going to develop into the people they’re meant to be. But when we can do our part of, giving them opportunity and encouraging them when they do positive things and helping them understand when things are challenging. And when different choices could be made in challenging moments, like that’s just. Enabling them to, live through their potential. So I’m for sure hopeful and talk about resilience, what kids are going through right now. There’s no doubt that it’s having a humongous cost on everybody’s mental health, like parents and kids.  This is the story of life, right? People go through things that they should never have to go through that are super challenging. And that can be really deflating and it can be very upsetting and it can also be, a chance. I choose to see difficult moments as an opportunity to really build resilience.”

Jennifer Myers Chua: This episode had me considering my own traditions, particularly surrounding the holidays.  And Maran pointed out how early children understand the concept of receiving gifts. And then that expectation of gifts at certain occasions.  Giving to others and creating special opportunities for kindness. That is something that is more meaningful to me, but how have I been modelling this to my child? And how can we build more meaningful traditions around giving. It’s worth a thought.

Want to take action now? It sounds simple, but the easiest thing you can do to spread kindness is to be kind.  Want to brighten someone’s day today. Here’s a tip. Maran says that one of the most popular of her kindness activities and the one that she sees shared most on social media is baking cookies and bringing them to a friend.

In episode three, we chat with Kimberlee West, who is someone that I have followed for a long time. Since the early days of her business Kids Swag. I’m endlessly impressed by Kimberlee and her shop. It’s a purpose-driven e-commerce brand and she’s built Kids Swag around the idea of mindful representation.  With her business, she’s made a big impact in the lives of BIPOC children who don’t generally see themselves represented in the toy aisle.  And out of all of the episodes featured here, I think this is the one where we learn most about the founder. Kimberlee digs deep into her past. Events that have shaped how she sees the world this way.  And we get a really good understanding of her. Why. Why she is on a mission to help raise confident kids that appreciate difference.

Kimberlee West: “I don’t think people recognize or understand the psychological impact of not seeing yourself. One of the things that I did as I delve more into Kids Swag was reading a lot more and I came across a study and it was saying by the age of three, and it happens earlier, but age three is quite pivotal by the age of three, your child is really understanding their world based off of race. So they’re categorizing people and giving them certain characteristics and traits. So this, basically, this is the beginning of stereotyping at age three. And so you can imagine if in that period of time, they haven’t seen themselves, they’re also characterizing themselves as being something that’s less than, or not really part of the world that they’re in.”

“If it is a child that’s white and they’re seeing themselves, then it makes it that much harder for them to, even as they get older for them to acknowledge or understand the pain, that probably someone that doesn’t look like them has experienced their whole life because in their world, it will be a feeling of like, why does race matter? It’s not really a construct. Why can’t we all be the same? They’ve had the luxury of being able to identify as just being themselves more so than being white.”

 Jennifer Myers Chua: This episode had so many light bulb moments and so many things that. I haven’t considered as a white woman or a white business owner or a mother, even though I’m raising a multi-racial child. And Kimberlee has a really special gift when it comes to marketing and how she engages her community, her customers are instant ambassadors for her brand. I just adore Kimberlee’s approach.

And I really appreciate the stories that she told in this episode. It’s, it’s really worth the listen. And if you want to take action, now, here are some tips from this episode. 

1. All of us, have the opportunity to teach our children to be open and celebrate differences. A great way to start fill your home library with books, featuring a variety of voices and stories from people all over the world.
2. Want to see representation in the toy aisle? Speak up large brands are beginning to take notice and make changes based on consumer demand.
3. If you’re a creator or a curator, you need to be mindful of bias in product design and shop curation too.

In episode four, I spoke a bit about Hip Mommies and how we came to be and why we’ve made some of the choices that we have. In the past seven years, we’ve taken our distribution business into a brand new direction.  Putting the planet and our communities first, when making decisions. It’s been a long road, filled with a lot of learnings and our business just turned 17.  And I share a number of things that we learned along the way.  Particularly in the last seven years since I’ve been involved. And I won’t go into the recap here, but if you’re interested in rebuilding a business, or family business dynamics or value-based business, or even the world of product based business or the baby products industry. It’s all in this episode. 

But to leave you with one thing, do your research.  Make sure what you were buying is tested, safe, authentic, all of that. And if you don’t have the time. Shop with a reputable seller. Who does that work for you? Sustainability, safety. It’s all very expensive. So if a deal sounds too good to be true. It just might be.

April McKinnon from Anointment is who we meet in episode five. She’s been making handmade personal care products in the Maritimes for over 12 years.  She bought her business, a farmer’s market soap company. And she had some really interesting insights to share about that. About buying a business and if it was a good investment over just starting a business on her own. And over the years, April has made a lot of changes and some mistakes. And she’s now the owner of a thriving, natural skincare brand. Which is available across Canada and in some larger natural retailers, like whole foods.

April’s a former environmental engineer and her homestead and Apiary are on this incredibly beautiful marshland in the east coast of Canada. So she also had a lot to share about how she’s inspired by that unique landscape. And how her business really interacts with the natural world. She also very bravely shared that her time spent in the NICU with her daughter with critical illness was the inspiration to give back and that the PPE and the waste created during that stay was something that had really stuck with her and helped create the values that this business is based on. But what got me about this episode was that April talks about the value chain. About how she sources her ingredients, why she chooses the partner she does  and what that means to us as conscious consumers, when we are deciding between two potential purchases.

April MacKinnon: “I’m a huge proponent of relationship-based business. Shea butter is a great example. I work with a with a supplier that purchases directly from a women’s co-op in Ghana. And so you can see from their videos and from their newsletters what’s happening in the village where the Shea butter is produced. The fact that the women there have been able to send their children to school because this is the income that they are making from selling the Shea butter. And so. I really like that for the social responsibility aspect. For someone starting out. You really have to define your, define your ethics, define your values within your business and don’t deviate. So spending time thinking about those things is really important. I think, there are some companies who for whom success is measured by bottom line and to other companies for whom success is measured in their work-life balance and other people for whom success is measured by something else completely. So knowing that is often enough to drive how you decide to purchase.”

Jennifer Myers Chua: Want to take action now? Here are some tips from this episode.

1. Number one. Look online before you buy. Sites like EWG allow you to look in the potential safety risks of personal care products. Now these databases are not perfect. But they can give you some insight into what ingredients are in the products you’re using. Look at the ingredients though, not the verified label, because those are paid opportunities. So just be mindful of that.
2. Passionate about a particular cause? April’s brand supports women through pregnancy postpartum through a number of ways. It’s possible to shop with a brand who have great products and values that align with yours.
3. If you’re in business or looking to start a business, it’s tempting to make something for everyone.  But April points out that it’s best to define your ethics, define your values within your business. And don’t deviate. And over the years, April’s offering has gotten smaller and more focused.  She suggests niching down, niching down and niching down again.

In episode six, we chatted with Lisa Ngyuen from Baubles + Soles. Lisa’s toddler shoes are made of this innovative material of sea salt and soy that are a hundred percent recyclable. And with interchangeable, baubles, really cute hearts and animals and things like that.  You can give the shoe a completely new look with just a twist. Additional features like water resistance, make bubbles and souls incredibly multipurpose and makes them.  Really the top choice of anyone looking to buy less shoes for their little one.

 In this episode, Lisa also gave us a bit of insight into building her business and making it onto shark tank. And she also chats about her heart and souls fund giving back program, which was inspired by her childhood as a refugee. And then time spent in Southeast Asia doing pro bono legal work for stateless peoples. What I found interesting about this conversation.  Was Lisa’s insight into domestic manufacturing.  Lower carbon footprint, less shipping. Greater chance that the workers are being paid fairly. And less chance of environmental catastrophes. Our laws are just stricter here in north America. But often time businesses go overseas right away, because they don’t think there is another option or that it can be cost effective to manufacture close to home.

Lisa Nguyen: “I was doing this research when we were preparing for Shark Tank and one of the things that a CEO that I was working with at the time she pointed out, listen, your effective margins is actually better than if you had manufactured it overseas. And here she is talking about the turnaround time for this product, the time that it, so you have to pay for these products, but then it sits at sea for a month before it gets to, to America. And also like we have the ability to maybe place a lower MOQ minimum order quantity when it’s made here domestically, because it doesn’t have to go so far. When you manufacture off shore, you have to plan out your inventory 6 to 12 months in advance, and then you order accordingly and then your cash goes out, as, as you’re waiting for it to come in. So in actual fact, your margins, like the margins is actually higher than you realize because of the amount of time that it takes and how much money you have sitting in inventory. And then you have to sell out of the inventory. For us here. We have the flexibility of a lower MOQ minimum order quantity and so then our effective margin is actually I think if not lower than the same as if we had chosen to make it. Off shore. If you think about the cost of goods sold and there maybe you add marketing, because  people feel good about that. And, and people feel like quality is there because it is made here. So then that’s actually a little bit of marketing funds that’s already built into the product.”

Jennifer Myers Chua: Less than 0.1% of shoes purchased in north America are made in north America. And the majority of shoes sold north America are not recyclable. Many shoe brands that claim recyclability are really just. Taking shoes back and redistributing them. Meaning they’re donated to populations overseas. So that’s a lot of international travel for just one pair of shoes.  Top tips from this episode. 

1. look for multi-purpose shoes for your little one. Toddlers and preschoolers may go through two sizes and six or more pairs of shoes per size in a year.
2. Another thing to look for with kids shoes, machine washable, some shoes are made with plastics and glues that don’t hold up well in the washing machine. And kid’s shoes get dirty.

 In episode seven, we met with Megan Takeda-Tully from Suppli.  episode was fascinating and really eyeopening.  We talked about how much takeout waste is actually created, how that waste is managed and what the environmental and health effects are from our obsession with convenience. And I think out of all of the last 10 episodes, this is the one that effect my habits in my personal life the most. And if you haven’t already listened to this one, it’s worth it. Because if you get takeout at all, it’s, it’s worth a listen.

 The plastic waste from takeout. It’s extreme. Because even before the pandemic. In Canada alone, we were already throwing out 3 million tons of plastic waste. And only 9% of that is actually recycled. The majority of our takeout containers are still made of styrofoam and black plastic. Both of which are not recyclable in most parts of the country. So it ends up in landfills. Along with billions of plastic utensils and about 29,000 tons of plastic food waste ends up in our natural environment. We find it in forests, washed up on beaches, stuff like that. So Megan is taking on a really huge issue.

Who is responsible? Is it on us as the consumer? The restaurants were choosing the styrofoam. Or should our municipalities get involved? Giving subsidies for alternatives?

 Megan Takeda-Tully:  “a lot of people assume that because restaurants are using single use containers that. They don’t care about the environment and that that’s not a priority for them. The reality is, is that the restaurant business is so cost sensitive. It’s such a low margin business.  Despite wanting to do what they can for the environment, sometimes even the more environmentally friendly single use option. They’re too expensive for some of these restaurants. Right. And if it’s between like surviving or not, then they kind of have to survive. But if there’s an alternative that works with them as Suppli aims to do and really partner and understand what their pain points are and try and solve those in a way that’s cost-effective for them and really that we have buy-in from them on the model. I think  there’s a lot to be gained there.”

“One of the other surprising pieces of of kind of building Suppli and everything that I hadn’t really counted on is is how much individuals care about this and want it to succeed?  I think that now we’re building much more community and it’s not just, zero wasters, it’s, it’s a community that supports each other to  help build this momentum. And I think that’s awesome. And it’s so, so refreshing and energizing and. That’s something that I really hadn’t anticipated,  the willingness of our consumer base to give feedback and help us build this. Because that was my intention from the beginning. It’s a service and product service that is built from the grassroots up. And I think that’s the way to form these sorts of initiatives. And I think that sets you up well for building something that really tackles the issues that people are, are seeing.”  

Jennifer Myers Chua: Top tips from this episode.

1. If you’re in Toronto, please sign up for Suppli. Megan is on a very important mission, and this is an easy and affordable way to make big impact.  If not seek out restaurants that are using reusable containers or that will pack your food into a container that you’ve brought.
2. Avoid takeout containers. If you can. The forever chemicals that keep these waterproof are leaching into our waterways and bloodstreams and causing a lot of problems.
3. Make noise. Tell your local restaurants that you want an alternative call your city councillor because this is really an area that we need to take. Action.

Melita from Q for Quinn is our guest in episode eight. After an impressive career in the financial world.  Melita followed her father’s footsteps into the world of entrepreneurship. Creating organic cotton basics like socks for children.  Initially, she was concerned about toxins and dyes that were causing her son to have eczema. But now the focus of the business is more than that. Melita’s factories are OEKO-TEX certified. And she uses GOTScertified cotton.  In this episode, we learn what all of that means and why it’s so important. And Melita also touches on her giveback program as well, where she donates meals to children in the developing world. And in this episode, we talk all about organics, fast fashion. What’s really in our clothes, who’s making them and Melita explains externalities, which is a concept in economics. That explains how we determine the true cost of a product.

Melita Cyril:  “And this is exactly the challenge I find, being a business owner, Trying to create the best possible product. But it ends up being at a much higher cost than, an alternative. I wouldn’t even say competition because it’s not the same product. It’s more of an alternative, right. I have an undergraduate degree in economics and I won’t get into. Too much of the jargon. But I, I will try to explain this. You might understand the concept of  this demand and supply curve intersecting in order to get to the free market price of, of something it’s called lean equilibrium. What happens if the demand curve or the supply curve is not accurate? It does not truly take into account. As far as the supply curve is concerned, the true cost of something. For the demand curve. You’ve got to look at it from a benefit perspective. So if the demand curve does not take into account, the true benefit of something. Or the supply curve does not take into account the true cost of something. You get the wrong price by society.”

“There is something called Externalities, which occurs when the full true cost or benefit of a market is not reflected in the market economics of it. So what that leads to is a wrong price. From a negative externalities perspective is the wrong price and overproduction.”

“And this is exactly the problem with fast fashion. It’s the same problem that we have with pollution. It’s the same concept. So with the supply curve for fashion in generalizing the market a little bit, I should just say for socks, if the cost doesn’t incorporate the social cost of the workers who have to produce were exposed to these pesticides and chemicals. If it doesn’t take into account the environmental costs off these pesticides and chemicals, then you’re going to get a lower price for the wrong price. And if you’re looking to source that that takes into account all of this, the sourcing price is going to be higher. And, and so that, that is exactly why if we pay attention to all this, we have to source at a higher cost and the price ends up being higher for a consumer. By buying a product, you are making sure you are paying the true cost of the product and not a lower cost where somebody else or even your own children end up paying the price for it.”

Jennifer Myers Chua: Want to take action now? Here are some tips from this episode.

1. Look for GOTS certified organic cotton, especially if buying for anyone with skin issues or eczema.
2. If you’re choosing fast fashion because of the price. Consider things like cost per use, durable items can be used many more times. Are often available to be resold or passed on.
3. Consider the costs when you’re looking to make a purchase. You can reach out to brands and ask about their worker policies or how things are made.

Number nine. Emma Rhomann is a toxics expert. She helps people make greener, healthier choices in their homes. And because she’s been studying things like water systems and chemicals for decades. I wanted to ask her questions about all of the goods that we’re buying and bringing into our homes. Now this episode goes into all of the things that we never consider about what is in the goods that we are buying. But we also get into who is regulating what makes it onto the shelves. How that’s really a system that’s failing us at this moment. And how all of this affects us and our health in the longterm.

Emma Rohmann: “essentially environmental health or environmental medicine looks at the impact external factors have on our health. When it comes to consumer goods, we can think of them impacting our space. Everything that we are putting on our skin  has the potential to be absorbed. What we put in our air we breathe in and what’s in our food and our drink we ingest. So There’s three pathways and a lot of the kind of conversation around toxics got pushed to the side because most conventional practitioners would say, oh, well, the dose makes the poison. We don’t . Need to be concerned because there’s such small amounts and our bodies have detoxification systems. They’re not going to cause a health impact. Where environmental health comes into play, environmental medicine. we’re not just looking at isolated exposures to things. There are toxins, literally everywhere. At this point. It’s not about going toxin-free, we can’t, but it’s lowering the exposure as much as possible and supporting our body systems so that they can better handle what they can’t control. So when we think of the way that our environment affects our health, it is varied. And that’s what makes it such a challenging field of study because every body handles things differently, but essentially you can consider your body’s systems like a barrel. It’s a contained volume. And when we are exposed to certain toxins or stressors, this adds to our toxic load.  If your body systems cannot process these toxins and stressors fast enough at the rate that they’re coming in, they end up overflowing into our bloodstream into our bodies. Some of them get reabsorbed into our fat and it can cause cellular damage. It can cause hormone, disruption hormone disruption is one of the main things that I talk about because it is so widespread. We know that some toxins are contributing to cancer, asthma, and allergies. It’s vast.  But that’s the crux of how the environment affects us.”

 Jennifer Myers Chua: Top tips.

1. Emma suggests asking questions, reaching out to the manufacturer or the shop and ask about the ingredients. The manufacturers that have safety top of mind. They’re expecting this, they have the information available and they’re happy to help. 
2. Be mindful when shopping online, what you think you’re ordering might not be what shows up at your door. Counterfeits are rampant, especially online and counterfeiters cut corners to keep costs down. Skipping things like safety, fair wages and using cheaper and maybe toxic ingredients.
3. If you’re overwhelmed and you don’t know where to start. If you look at the show notes on thecostofgoodssold.com. You can link to Emma’s podcast and to her blog, where she gives actionable tips to make all of this less overwhelming.

Born and raised in one of my favourite places in the world. Prince Edward Island. I’ve been wanting to meet Sheena Russell for ages. And I finally get to in episode 10.  Her popular snack food brand Made With Local is everywhere in Canadian grocery stores. Her bars are delicious, nutritious, and Sheena is like the model of someone who has taken social entrepreneurship. Seriously.  Her innovative business model creates impact in so many ways. It influences how she sources ingredients. Who she partners with and who makes and packages the bars.

 Now I loved how Sheena claims her business. Doesn’t have this traditional founder story with this aha moment. Instead she remained open and all of these experiences, these opportunities have kind of fallen into her lap. It’s been serendipitous.  Like fate, and it’s a great story.

Our conversation led to a moment where Sheena had to shift her mindset. I’ve had a similar shift with my own business. And this mindset is about big box or big grocery.  It’s tempting as a small business to make all of your sales to small businesses and independence and support that. But if you’re really, truly. But if you’re truly looking to make an impact. Mass retail might be the place to go.  Because every time that Sheena sells a pallet of goods to Costco, She supporting that many more Canadian farmers. And the workers in her social impact bakery. Every dollar spent with the big box is a dollar that’s going directly back into our community.

Sheena Russell:  “our bars are all handmade in partnership with social enterprise bakeries that help to train and employ folks who are living with some type of disability or barrier to the mainstream workforce. They’re actually producing these products right. And it creates  this beautiful ripple effect out into  their lives, their families, their communities. So with that, like those two things married, which is the, what it’s made of and the, how it’s made produces this product that has this like very quantifiable, very real social impact that, that goes out in all directions.  I value this and our thousands and thousands of Canadian customers value this, because  they want to nourish their bodies with foods that align with their personal values and their viewpoints in the world. And they have this sense that food, because of all of these things, the food is going to nourish you in a different kind of way than, some other kind of like mass produced bars that are made with kind of meh ingredients it’s a different experience I believe. And that’s what I want people to feel. Like I want people to have this feeling when they’re eating one of our Made With Local real food bars or that it is experience that connects them to their community.”

Jennifer Myers Chua: Want to take action now? Here are some tips from this episode.

1. Number one.  Shopping for snacks. You want to avoid things like unpronounceable ingredients and Palm oil. Palm oil is terrible. It’s not healthy for you or the planet. And the industry has contributed to things like the extinction of a number of species.  Mass deforestation. And it’s found in a lot of snack bars. So look out for that.
2. If you’re looking to build a social enterprise business, or a values driven company. Scaling up, isn’t selling out. It’s increasing the size of your impact. So maybe give Costco a chance.
3. If you want to make sure you’re supporting a company that really is creating impact. Look for B Corp certification it’s rigorous and B Corp’s have a legal requirement to the planet and people before profit.  

If you joined us through the first 10 episodes of Cost of Goods Sold. I just like to thank you so much for listening. And helping to amplify the voices of these brands that are really truly making a difference. And if you have the opportunity to share one of these episodes with a friend or a family member of yours that you think could really learn something from this, we would be forever grateful. And I know the brand owners would be. As well. You can access all episodes of the Cost Of Goods Sold podcast on apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also you can visit thecostofgoodssold.com, where we have show notes and transcripts from each episode. And all of the links and social media profiles of all of the brands featured so if you want to connect with them you can find the links on our website.